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Applegreen own brand chargers

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Huh? That's akin to complaining that you can't buy Texaco petrol from a Applegreen forecourt, surely?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    In this case the service station is publicly owned. Substation and eCars are 95% publicly owned so it's worth a complaint.

    Possibly worth another complaint to TII to investigate if Applegreen have the right to kick a semi state off state infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not exactly as the product is the same, electricity, but the payment method is different.

    It would be more akin to not allowing certain fuel cards on publicly owned forecourts or forcing you to use a particular credit card and not allowing you to pay by visa or mastercard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,784 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Anyone know if the unit in Paulstown with the CCS/CHAdeMO plugs is down? App says it is, and I might want to use the site over the weekend, and of course 3 working CCS plugs is far better than only 2 working plugs!!



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Applegreen have an exclusive contract to build and operate the TII tranche 1 sites (M1 and Enfield). They get to choose who they subcontract too (i.e. Burger King or Tesla). The service station contracts were awarded in 2009 for a 25 year period. Until then the service station isn't publicly owned it's just another public private partnership that's running it's course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭dsandson


    That may well be, but look across the water in GB and Applegreen own Welcome Break MSAs. The Competition & Markets Authority (I think thats their title) ruled that they had acted anti-competitively in trying to restrict Gridserve and Tesla in enhancing their charging sites, and favouring their own rollout of chargers on their MSAs.

    Applegreen have the same strategy here. It only takes the competition authorities to look closer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    They may very well have the exclusive contract but what is in that contract will determine if they have the right to kick ESB, or indeed Tesla, out of the forecourts or not. That's likely what the competition regulator is going to look at.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    They had the right to invite them in, why wouldn't they have the right to end that relationship.

    The nature of the public private partnership signed in 2009 likely had no provision for EV charging, and you wouldn't sign a concession agreement to build and operate a service area that allows competitors on your site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Did he complain that the they only have Applegreen fuel pumps too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    They weren’t kicked out. The contract/lease expired and wasn’t renewed



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,784 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Looks like the 2nd unit with the CHAdeMO plug in Paulstown has been removed…


    Jesus the knives are really out for CHAdeMO lately!!! Almost feel sorry for the Leaf drivers!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I recon Applegreen are generally trying to destroy the EV industry. Considering leafs charge slower* and have smaller range* supporting chademo at their sites might actually be good for their businesses, why would they want that?

    Better to have a press release saying "nobody charges at our stations, everybody should keep buying petrol"

    *in general



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Are we 100% sure that there were two Chademo plugs onsite at Paulstown? Looking back at the data here I don't see any indication that AG ever had two...?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,784 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    no, there were 2 units onsite

    unit 1: 2 CCS plugs

    unit 2: 1 CCS & 1 CHAdeMO - this unit has been removed as per my earlier post.


    edit: I see where confusion might arise when I said "the 2nd unit with the CHAdeMO", what I meant of course is that the 1st unit is the non CHAdeMO unit, and the 2nd unit was the one with the CHAdeMO plug on it..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    So they have also reduced the CCS plug availability by 1/3rd? That's maddening

    I see circle k have a charger on that motorway also, wonder if that has had any influence on the decision



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Maybe they were having supply issue with chargers are relocated it to a different location.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,792 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Ok, understood!

    So are we saying that the whole charger (with CCS and Chademo) has been removed or just the Chademo head?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,784 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    The whole charger!!! (according to Plugshare anyway!)

    Maybe @ted1 is right and they've simply moved it to a newer location to get some presence there, as weren't a load of the Ballymount units removed after being installed (but before the site ever went live?)


    @Red Silurian yes, site has gone from 3x CCS & 1x CHAdeMO down to 2x CCS only.... lets hope it's only temporary, and they'll either put one back, or else even replace with a dual CCS unit? I might be passing it tomorrow so will take a few photos and perhaps add them to Plugshare...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    That's certainly possible but they only have a handful of sites in the country, we surely would have heard of a site going down if it happened recently



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    I meant actually supply of chargers . if a location is being under utilised. Move it to a location that is waiting for a charger



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,784 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Maybe they are just looking at the numbers... and the numbers might not be stacking up for CHAdeMO anymore!! Unlike eCars, Applegreen aren't in it to provide the service, they are in it to make money!! Though even eCars have been removing CHAdeMO lately in favour of CCS only sites!! So maybe even they are seeing it now in a commercial sense?

    I reckon that site goes single unit with dual CCS for the time being, and if/when they see usage increasing along with evidence of queuing.. (even the staff in their stores could report EV queuing to keep it simple..) they'll stick in another dual CCS unit beside it as ultimately thats where the money will be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭tlaavtech


    I suspect this is the case. Any time I have charged there (about 6 times), I have been the only car there.

    Sucks for Leaf drivers though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭crl84


    Don't know about chademo but the 2 times I've been there in the last month, there's been 2 other CCS cats plugged in when I got there (2 Teslas the last time). I was only there for less than 15mins the mast time, and there was an Ioniq queuing when I was leaving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭crl84


    Don't know about chademo but the 2 times I've been there in the last month, there's been 2 other CCS cats plugged in when I got there (2 Teslas the last time). I was only there for less than 15mins the mast time, and there was an Ioniq queuing when I was leaving.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Double post, and I didn't know cats had CCS ports now 😉😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Exactly my point, what new AG station opened or got upgraded with an extra charger last week?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I think the first part of your post is on the money.

    The second part is hopefully also true but is reliant on AG giving a **** about EV charging



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,784 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Was down there anyway today… a cone covering the cables from the removed unit…

    no one else charging when we arrived and no one charging when we left 20 minutes later… despite there being quite a few ID.4’s there, they all seemed local…




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think they care more about making money and from an cost return point of view CCS is better

    The more kWh you sell the more money you make, so faster charging cars are more profitable

    The vast majority of Chademo cars are limited to 50kW, whereas a lot of CCS cars now will reliably go higher

    So it makes commercial sense to install more CCS plugs

    Good economics, but sucks for Leaf owners. I wonder if Nissan dealerships are informing potential customers that their fast charging network is now shrinking 🤔

    As for moving the existing unit, Applegreen definitely seem to be favouring speed of deployment over size of hubs so the unit that was removed will probably pop up somewhere else soon

    Or maybe it was just broken and needed to go back for repair, we'll just have to wait and see

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The more kWh you sell the more money you make, so faster charging cars are more profitable

    Probably a bit simplistic, you also need to bear in mind that chademo cars tend to have smaller batteries so are likely to stop for a charge more often, and because they charge slower the drivers are more likely to grab a sandwich/hot drink/meal/etc while the charging goes on so that's more profit for the forecourt owner again.

    But obviously the sheer number of chademo cars is down around the 10% of all EVs mark so that needs to be considered as well... Applegreen are also ridiculously expensive and the vast majority of drivers know this



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,493 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    If they stopped for a charge more often that would be reflected in the Chademo charging stats. But it's not. I don't know why you keep bringing this redundant point up.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,425 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    When I ordered our Niro in Nov 19, the dealership was also a Nissan dealership.

    Was shown the leaf, and had the option of the 62kwh leaf but we preferred the Niro.

    There was talk about chademo being dead then too. No new cars were coming out even then with chademo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    So you're saying leafs don't stop to charge more often? Because that's certainly not my experience haha!

    Also according to ecars-stats.com/ the station at Obama Plaza had 23.84hrs of chademo used daily while the CCS had 24.88 hours daily (across the 8 stations)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,493 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    I'm saying on average a Chademo unit will not provide as much profit to the likes of Applegreen as a CCS unit.

    Maybe the owner of that website (Padraig isn't it?) can give us an overview of usage again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah the writing has been on the wall for around 5 years I'd say, it's criminal that Nissan didn't change over to CCS with the 40kWh Leaf

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭innrain


    That example is the exception not the rule. From the same dataset overall graphs. Keep in mind that CHdeMO is limited to 50kW so plotting the kWh on the y axis would show a bigger gap




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    From Facebook

    In case anyone else had the same issues with the Applegreen App not showing charging points that are right in front of you, here’s how to ensure you can see all charging points on the island of Ireland.


    Background: the new Applegreen app requires a separate “plan” for UK and ROI. Without it, you won’t see any chargers listed in the territory.


    I contacted customer support and was able to solve the issue. To save you the trouble, here’s what you have to do.


    Go to Account. Then under Billing Contracts, there’s a hard to see link “Add plan”. Click on that. Then you should be able to add whichever of the two plans you are missing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭vinniem


    Thanks, but does adding a plan result in extra charges or monthly subscription? It gives a warning before adding plan that extra costs may be incurred. I've looked at this just now and I'm not on any plan and have used several times in ROI. Bit confusing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    It's fine. I'm sure the warning is for any possible future plan where there could be a monthly subscription in exchange for a lower unit rate, like ESB have as an option. AG don't currently have one like that, just the one with €0 monthly subscription.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,771 ✭✭✭✭ted1




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I picked Obama as it has 8 chargers that can charge any car, J14 only has 3 chademo plugs there, 1 dedicated, 2 shared vs 5 dedicated CCS so the effect of leafs queuing etc would be minimal

    Even still, are even 10% of cars on the road chademo? Yet they occupy 28% of the time, at that station

    Good point I'll admit

    I'd like to see some national stats if there are any available



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭jogdish


    Hi,

    I hate payment apps, will need to use Enflied east bound applegreen charger - can you pay by tapping there ? Or is it worth setting up on the app ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,784 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    yes, you can 'tap to pay' , however they place a €30 hold on your card, and it might take a few days to return... so if you are happy with that set up (€30 pre auth for each charging session), then yes, go ahead...

    I've used Applegreen 3 times this year, but still have the app... set it up, and then leave it till you need it.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,390 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Maybe take that "hours in use" with a pinch of salt. The metric is trying to represent the number of hours a socket is not available because it's either in use, or blocked because the other socket is in use. (like the old 50kW units where CCS blocked Chademo and Chademo blocked CCS). The new units with 2 sockets are both sides means the same happens to the metrics. CCS is in use, but the CHAdeMO socket on the same side is blocked from use. It skews the metrics.

    I'll see if I can figure a way to work around that

    This is a graph of units reported as "Charging" or "Occupied". Last I looked, "Occupied" was when some was in the bay, plugged in, but hadn't started charging. Pretty sure I also only consider a unit to be charging if it has a "charge start time", so that ignores the issue mentioned above.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,390 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Nothing nationally, but I have ESB, Applegreen (i'll see about getting those on the site too, just no time or motivation to do it these days), and somewhat some EasyGo stats. Nothing on Ionity or Tesla.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭jogdish


    Charger out of order eastound Enflied, where there is literally only the one charger! They need to get their act together after kicking out the ESB ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    My leaf - a 2011 - has about 14-14.5kWh of usable energy depending on its mood. Now it still takes half an hour to go 20-80%, but in that time I may have taken 10kWh on board. Assuming its a 200kW unit, if I were on it for that same 30 minutes in my Tesla, I could have taken 40kWh. That's 4 times the revenue, for the same utilisation factor. I do all my local trips in my leaf, it's in action at least 2-3 times a week. But I have only fast charged twice since I got it, and that was on the way home from Merlins. People arent taking leafs on road trips and fast charging. We do however take our Tesla and herselfs Ora on road trips, both of which if fast charging charge at speeds exponentially faster (and thus pay for more energy in the same time) than my poor old leaf.

    If I were a commercial charging company, obviously less load factor is bad, and any energy sold is good, but if cost is a factor, who would I optimise my ssystem for, the guy that will take 40kWh in half an hour or the guy that may get to 10kWh in that half hour.

    PS:: on the local - to me - AG charger in gorey they have no chademo and 2 CCS plugs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,493 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,142 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    To be fair they don't even have a charger listed for Enflied 😉

    Sorry, couldn't resist when I spotted that 🤣

    I agree, they really need to get a move on with installing additional chargers at some of the sites

    They seem to be spreading the existing units thinner across more sites, given the second unit was removed from Paulstown recently

    So AG seem to be prioritising number of sites over quality of each individual site

    What's that saying, "never mind the quality, look at the width"

    I wonder is there a long lead time for procurement or something, can't imagine there's any shortage of demand for EV chargers at the moment

    This unfortunately looks like the same trap that Ecars fell into and got stuck with a bunch of sites with 1 units

    I'm starting to be a bit more forgiving of Circle K, Maxol, SSE and Ionity with their slower rollout but they're going to multiple HPCs per site generally

    Even Ecars are doing better than that lately, although I'm sure they'll do an absolute cluster f**k of a site to make up for it soon

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,109 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yes it is true that faster chargers are worth more money to the provider and while some cars can charge at up to 320kW the vast vast majority are in the 50-100 range so you make a good point but not a very good one



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