Russia - threadbanned users in OP

11-08-2023 01:24PM

While it sounds grim, I do think a semi frozen conflict means an eventual Russia defeat.

Ukraine are very unlikely to give up, they know they can't. It'd mean no freedom for themselves and future generations. On the other side the weak Russian economy is under massive pressure, and there will be continuous social and political discontent in the country. That situation can't continue indefinitely. It's only a few weeks since the regime narrowly came through a coup. As long as the war continues there's going to be an increasing risk of an uprising from the public, elements of the military or something led by political rivals. What the final spark would be we won't know until it happens, but Russia won't continue to devote the effort it is currently giving to this war. It might take another year, maybe even longer, but Russia will fail if it doesn't alter course. I presume Putin knows this but isn't quite sure how to get off the hook. Maybe he's hoping a Trump victory next year might change the West's position.

Furze99 · 11-08-2023 01:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963984#Comment_120963984

Agreed but it hardly matters whether as a Russian citizen you are aware of what is going down and are sitting on your hands or whether as a Russian citizen you have taken all the state propaganda at face value and agree with the SMO. Or are Russian expat living in the EU and either keeping the head down or out marching in support.

Both groups are equally culpable and responsible for what their state is engaged in, both individually and collectively.

People can make excuses for them, but that's all they are, excuses. Excuses that don't wash and they deserve great hardship to be brought on them.

silverharp · 11-08-2023 01:38PM

most likely the offensive will be officially called off by the end of Aug with no net gains for Ukraine, cant see how they can do any kind of one punch at this stage, they would need to keep reserves , and Russia arent leaving any open doors.

Jinglejangle69 · 11-08-2023 01:40PM

The leaked documents from the US months ago did state the counter offensive would likely not succeed.

They are rarely wrong.

pcardin · 11-08-2023 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965101#Comment_120965101

well, everyone here knows who Kermit supports. Same was Timmysomething. Hes gone now.

20silkcut · 11-08-2023 01:44PM

The posters that are very pro Ukranian are very quick to update if things are going bad too. This thread is near real time in terms of updates good or bad. When the damn blew, when prigozhin coup collapsed, when Russia attacks the power plant, it is up here on this thread almost instantaneously from the mostly strongly pro Ukranian posters. This thread is absolutey fine. There is no distortion of information caused by where sympathies lie. It’s one of the most insidious, disingenuous arguments that has arisen over the last 10 years in the wake of brexit and trump and this horrific war and is straight out of the Russian propaganda playbook. This false concern that everything has to balanced by opposing views and faux concern for free speech. It’s the height of horse shite and is completely and utterly disingenuous. It’s straight out bare faced platforming of lies to suit agendas and nothing to do with balance.

Become Death · 11-08-2023 01:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965464#Comment_120965464

I may have taken you up wrong and apologies if I have...all russians deserve great hardship because of the actions of their government?

pixelburp · 11-08-2023 01:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965464#Comment_120965464

I'm not sure how you can say a group is culpable for something they have absolutely no awareness of. IF all you know is propaganda, who's gonna tell you otherwise?

pcardin · 11-08-2023 01:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965590#Comment_120965590

all who stay silent, all who can not decide, all who 'are not interested in politics', all who say 'it is not that conclusive', and absolutely all who support their fascist/nazi mafia regime.

pcardin · 11-08-2023 02:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965630#Comment_120965630

you could say that in 1930' when all there was a local newspaper and radio. Its a bit ridiculous to state that in 2023. Today, it is their choice.

Furze99 · 11-08-2023 02:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965590#Comment_120965590

Yes, that's what goes down with being a citizen of a state. You know that concept called responsibility.

Become Death · 11-08-2023 02:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965725#Comment_120965725

I am responsible for my own actions and my family's safety.

No more, no less.

Thats such a bizarre take

TedBundysDriver · 11-08-2023 02:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965519#Comment_120965519

They must be putinbots 🤪

pixelburp · 11-08-2023 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965690#Comment_120965690

You think Russia's internet and information access is as loose and free as here? Have you watched the state TV current affairs shows? I think it's easy to underestimate just how curated information is in somewhere like russia

Headshot · 11-08-2023 02:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965857#Comment_120965857

There's a reason why VPNs are extremely popular in Russia and Putin and his cronies are trying to stop the VPNs altogether

josip · 11-08-2023 02:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965731#Comment_120965731

No, it's correct. It's the premise of 'common purpose', a component of common law and goes back hundreds of years. It is relevant to many jurisdictions including Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_purpose

Become Death · 11-08-2023 02:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965901#Comment_120965901

As far as I am concerned, it is entirely irrelevant. I will not agree that all russians deserve hardship because of their government's actions.

technocrat · 11-08-2023 02:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965857#Comment_120965857

They have full unrestricted access to YouTube which contains lots of factual western media reports on the Russian invasion like CNN, BBC, TV5 etc.

So yes they have a choice, believe the Russian manipulated media or foreign independent truth media.

So less of the ‘poor old brainwashed Russians’ they just choose to back their own side in this illegal war.

Danzy · 11-08-2023 02:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965923#Comment_120965923

Completely, it's nihilist Marxist bollix of the type Putin would have learnt in the Communist Party. The collective is responsible and everyone must be made pay.

Sleepy · 11-08-2023 02:55PM

@Wibbs don't know if you spotted this article from Time that posted earlier in the week. While it acknowledges a lot of the issues at the front, it would somewhat disagree with the "frozen front" view...

https://time.com/6300772/ukraine-counteroffensive-can-still-succeed/

In brief, it's argument is that while Ukraine doesn't have the long range missiles or air supremacy for the counter-offensive to achieve the Dessert Storm like lightening strike to the Azov sea many in the West are expecting/wishing for, Russia don't appear to have the reserves necessary to rotate troops all along the front or shore up defences when pressed (an issue the UAF don't currently have) which, when added to the other structural problems the Russian military have, suggest that while it'll be a slow grind, Ukraine should eventually prevail... Don't just take my summary of it though, the article is well worth throwing on the kettle for IMO.

zv2 · 11-08-2023 02:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965991#Comment_120965991

For the most part, attrition seems to be the way to go. Grind them down day and night while the ruble continues its descent.

TheValeyard · 11-08-2023 03:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965923#Comment_120965923

Nah,

This lad takes away the Civilian bodies (like that 8 year old boy murdered this morning)

This sums it up well

pcardin · 11-08-2023 03:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965857#Comment_120965857

I still talk to people from russia, ex colleagues, people I know. All from there. Everything is available if you look for it. They use VPNs to watch movies from hated US and damn west, they can read news too. If they want. I 'don't think', I know.

Become Death · 11-08-2023 03:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966036#Comment_120966036

I'm not sure whether or not you are joking. If you are it is in poor taste.

There are 8 year old russians too. They deserve hardship I suppose?

I think it's an absolutely insane way of thinking.

Sounds like Liam Neeson's insane ramblings about wanting to bump into a black person a few years ago. (and before anyone gets on, I am not conflating the war to liam neeson, I am comparing blaming individuals for the actions of others, purely based on their nationality/race/religion)

firemansam4 · 11-08-2023 03:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965321#Comment_120965321

Yea, I got lots of stick for suggesting something similar to this a few weeks back, even one poster questioning the timing of my posts trying to imply I had multiple accounts.

It's patently obvious that Ukraine are not getting enough military aid to win this war, the US and the west are still holding back in my view. Unless that changes I dont see things changing in Ukraines favour anytime soon.

amandstu · 11-08-2023 03:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966052#Comment_120966052

True ,those that advocate even loosely an "only Russian is a dead Russian" approach are in my view playing Putin's game as some kind of propaganda virus.

The Ukrainians deserve better than such "support"

Coming from the mouth of someone directly affected by the invasion those sentiments would perhaps be understandable but we ,from our secure vantage point should espouse sentiments that are worth others dying for(and hope that the Russian and Ukrainian peoples can eventually live in peace and mutual respect with each other)

TedBundysDriver · 11-08-2023 03:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966018#Comment_120966018

Well we can all agree that it's great to see Russia ground down militarily and economy wise but unfortunately Ukraine is being destroyed at a frightening rate also.

The longer this goes on i do have my suspicions that that is exactly what the west wants as in a destroyed Russian nation and if Ukraine is the vessel for that so be it.

zv2 · 11-08-2023 03:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966036#Comment_120966036

Ireland needs to join NATO and get some ammo to Ukraine. Otherwise we remain neutral arse scratchers.

Wibbs · 11-08-2023 03:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965330#Comment_120965330

I prefer the wider picture, even if that may appear cold. Russia's lost already. It doesn't matter if it takes over the whole of Ukraine. Even that's not a win. Remember the US took over Iraq and Afghanistan within weeks, captured the capitals and removed the incumbent leaders, taking remarkably few casualties to do so. The vast majority of their wounded and killed came after they "won". Russia hasn't even passed that first stage and has lost a magnitude more men and materiel. Note how we hear of insurgency actions behind the Russian lines and never behind the Ukrainian? And that's mostly territory the Kremlin claims is pro Russia.

Ukraine's fúcked too of course. Their already struggling economy also screwed, their agriculture dead in the water for years at least and millions have left the country, with millions unlikely to return. On top of already dire demographics like Russia.

That's just Russia's war, sorry, "SMO". They've really screwed the pooch in the wider geopolitical world. Their economy, never exactly motoring beyond oil and gas is in freefall. BRICS? Give me a break. Of all the trading blocs out there it's one of the smallest only really pushed by Russia since this ballsology kicked off. China and India who don't like each other are in much bigger blocs, China's in trouble anyway, Brazil is too close to the US and not just geographically, South Africa's looking down the barrel of failed statehood, where they can't even keep the lights in in rich areas and we're seeing stuff like kill all White people kicking off. And that went well for Zimbabwe...

Note too how Kremlin spin rarely mentions China and India anymore? I wonder why... They've pivoted to Africa(and North Korea FFS). They've had to. Let's face it the "West" including Russia only gives a damn about Africa when there's yet another bloody humanitarian disaster, when human sticks on the telly and socials tug at our heartstrings and purses, resources to be grabbed, or proxy wars to fight that don't involve headline grabbing White people dying. That so many in regions of Africa appear see putin as a saviour illustrates the rinse and repeat idiocy involved there.

Russia's demographic decline has been worsened and unlike Europe and the US nobody but those from the dirt poor stans wants to go there. Even after putin threw cash at Russian families to fire out more kids the birthrate continues to fall. Their brain drain continues too. Putin changing educational rules and breaking from the European university system illustrates how desperate they are to try and keep graduates in the country. And it won't work.

strathspey · 11-08-2023 03:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120966125#Comment_120966125

You are quite naive, russians and Ukrainians will never live in peace after this war. What I can tell you pretty much conclusively is that one of the outcomes of this war will be a natural border of hate towards russians stretching from the Baltic to the Mediterranean. Having worked with, socialised and come across many Lithuanians, Poles, Czechs and Slovaks I can confirm that these people have nothing but unadulterated hate for russians and all things russian, without exception.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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