Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Clegg · 10-08-2023 09:53AM

Lowe and Hansen are significantly better than our other options, I think. For the aforementioned playmaking ability alone, they're well out in front.

sydthebeat · 10-08-2023 09:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959292#Comment_120959292

well theyre not though

Lowe and Hansen are used as link playmakers in midfield very often in our gameplay. it takes pressure off sexton (which was the issues in 2019) and it gives us many more options. Therefore, are very important to how we play.

however you want to frame it... Earls / Stockdale / Balacoune are not at all near their level of playmaking ability. JOB is, but he sthe epitome of a versatily back.

theVersatile · 10-08-2023 09:59AM

Stockdale is well able to play make. There's a reason he was tried at fullback for so long - and it wasn't for his lack of playmaking ability that he failed there.

Lowe/Hansen are far superior wingers for Ireland mind.

awec · 10-08-2023 10:03AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959312#Comment_120959312

I think you can pick any 2 of Lowe / Hansen / Stockdale / Earls and we'd be fine, it wouldn't affect how we play. I think Earls is probably the weakest link, but that's mostly because I fear this may be a bridge too far for a player of his age.

Lowe and Hansen are the first picks right now, but we shouldn't confuse the players who currently hold the jerseys with being players that are very important or irreplaceable.

Is there much difference between Stockdale and Lowe? No, not really. In reality, they are probably the two most similar wingers that Ireland have available to them, they're both big lads who are used often for hard carrying, and come in off their wing.

Baloucoune is not in the squad, so not really in my thoughts either.

The players that I would characterise as very important, to the extent that losing them would become problematic, are Sexton (obviously), JGP, VDF, Porter and Furlong. Doris can be added to this list if Conan doesn't make it. In the outside backs we are in rude health.

realhorrorshow · 10-08-2023 10:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959394#Comment_120959394

I agree with your initial point that neither winger is indispensable, but this is quite a bit wide of the mark imo. I would put Lowe on a similar level to JGP, in that he's very important to our attacking shape, but not indispensable in the way that a Sexton or Porter is.

Larbre34 · 10-08-2023 10:15AM

Lowe's big left boot to put the shyts up any advancing midfield? I think he is indispensable, especially against France when it comes.

ionadnapóca · 10-08-2023 10:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959394#Comment_120959394

I see why you dont see them as vital now. You value the other wingers allot higher than I do. Farrell agrees with you!

I dont think we have depth at wing. Depth in the real sense.

I dont like pointing out players weakness. I really mean that. We still have Earls in the squad. A soon to be 36 years old winger! Stockdale? I'll call a spade a spade - They are both liabilities. Nash? Totally unproven at the elite level. JOB is the only one I'd have a bit of faith in.

The value of Lowe and Hansen was highlighted in Irelands biggest wins over the last 12 months. 2nd & 3rd Tests in NZ and v France in 6N.

aloooof · 10-08-2023 10:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959413#Comment_120959413

People were talking about JGP in those indispensable terms prior to the 6N tho.

Buer · 10-08-2023 10:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959197#Comment_120959197

I don't think they are. Those errors were highlighted by multiple posters on here during the game, and he was criticised heavily. I'm just trying to give a little balance to his performance. He had a lot of positive elements and several negative moments (being scragged into touch, almost getting caught in his own 22 clearing and the missed tackle for the try).

I would say he's up against it to make the squad but he's definitely in the running. If they go 18/15, there's going to be a spot more than likely between himself and Earls up for grabs (unless they go with Nash which I'd say is less likely right now).

Clegg · 10-08-2023 10:39AM

I would have loved to see Jamie Osborne make the World Cup squad. He's the most talented back I've seen come through in a long time. That injury during the Six Nations training camp really derailed his season. Hasn't played since March.

He's young enough that he'll have at least another two World Cup cycles though. Probably three if he remains healthy.

realhorrorshow · 10-08-2023 10:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959500#Comment_120959500

I think he's indispensable to our attacking game but we've shown we can win without the all singing all dancing multi phase attack we saw in New Zealand last summer.

Iamabeliever · 10-08-2023 11:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959436#Comment_120959436

La Rochelle didn't think so.

aloooof · 10-08-2023 11:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959545#Comment_120959545

But if we’ve shown we can win without him, then surely by definition he’s not indispensable?

awec · 10-08-2023 11:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959436#Comment_120959436

Again though, Stockdale also has a monster left boot.

The two of them are incredibly similar. They're even both prone to defensive errors!

10-08-2023 12:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120956729#Comment_120956729

..

10-08-2023 12:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959926#Comment_120959926

I think 2018 Stockdale is in the conversation with Hansen and Lowe, not sure he gets ahead of either. He was flying the end of last season and I agree with Buer that he had a very good game at the weekend, the errors stick out more than they should.

Earls is baffling to me, he wouldn't be near an Irish 23 and I don't see him going to France but he's proven everyone wrong countless times so not nailing any colours to any masts.

jacothelad · 10-08-2023 12:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959197#Comment_120959197

Getting dumped into touch is shocking in a rugby match. Did he do it by himself or were other players involved, you know the sort of thing that goes on in a game, maybe some big guys tackling him. It has almost never happened in the history of Rugby to guys out near the touchline with the ball in hand. I've never seen it in over 60 years of watching the game. Were any other irish players tackled into touch during the game? If so, they must be as bad aas Stockdale. What a plonker he must be......😈

ionadnapóca · 10-08-2023 12:53PM

He ran across the pitch towards the touchline and into tacklers. Two Irish players outside of him. I think that's the frustrating part. Garbisi man-handled him.

Stockdale just doesn't see the dangers. He only sees opportunities to attack. He's an out and out finisher.

Shehal · 10-08-2023 01:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959449#Comment_120959449

We must have decent depth at wing if we were able to leave Baloucoune and Larmour out of a 42 man squad.

Shehal · 10-08-2023 01:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120958760#Comment_120958760

Some people just refuse to give Stockdale credit no matter what he does...

inbloom427 · 10-08-2023 01:32PM

Don’t agree with this at all. 2018 Stockdale was electric and more influential than Lowe at his very best. He’d walk into the team in that form. Lowe is a better player at present but they are really similar, and I think people are harsh when judging Stockers. Lowe could potentially make a few defensive mistakes in the World Cup and Jacob might perform at Lowe’s level if he got a run. Not a huge difference between them.

10-08-2023 01:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960095#Comment_120960095

Jesus this forum has gone to the dogs. He ran sideways across the pitch and was dumped out from 15 metres away, entirely his own fault. Sorry if my criticism has upset you.

sydthebeat · 10-08-2023 01:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960405#Comment_120960405

the 'main' difference is stockdale hasnt done it for 4 years, whereas lowe has been very consistent since 2019.

so Stockdale is POTENTIALLY as good as Lowe, but does that mean that he is equally as good as Lowe currently, and therefore a valid comparable option?

well no, hes not.

TRC10 · 10-08-2023 01:51PM

What in the world has Stockdale done over the last 4 years to show that there's "not a huge difference" between him and Lowe?

If a Leinster player's form dips even slightly for a few months, people are demanding they be dropped. We saw it with Ryan, Conan, Ringrose and we're seeing it with Furlong currently. Yet Stockdale can do absolutely nothing for 4 years, runs into touch twice and misses an easy tackle leading to a try. While Lowe performs consistently at a very high level, playing a key role in a very successful period for Ireland, scoring vital tries, and yet apparently there's "not much between them"?

realhorrorshow · 10-08-2023 01:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959862#Comment_120959862

I was agreeing with you. I said that he was integral to one element of our game, but that we can win without it.

ljsulster · 10-08-2023 02:07PM

The whole Stockdale hasn’t done anything since 2018 thing is rubbish.

He didn’t score as many in 2019 and 2020 but was still making big plays.

Missed all but 1 2021 six nations with injury, was straight back in scoring in the summer of 2021 before missing the rest of that year and 3/4 of 2022

Yes he’s not playing as well as what he was but give him a chance to get full fitness and confidence back

AbusesToilets · 10-08-2023 02:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960342#Comment_120960342

It's about having an objective assessment of him, rather than defaulting to the extremes. Balacoune had an equally decent performance vs SA in Nov, yet hasn't been given another look in, despite performing better than Stockdale for Ulster imo.

I don't see Stockdale offering the play making contributions that Farrell and Catt clearly value. Larmour has played better this season and didn't get a look in either.

Dubinusa · 10-08-2023 02:11PM

Our wings really wouldn't scare anyone. Stockdale in 2018 scared everyone but, he's not been good since. At least at that level. Every option we have is incomplete! They all have some kind of weakness. In my mind, Hanson is the best wing atm. In saying that, I believe he can get to a higher level as he's still young.

theVersatile · 10-08-2023 02:24PM

Lowe/Hansen fit our systems by far the best in open play - but if we had one strike play off a lineout move to win the RWC, I'd have Earls running it. His finishing and straight line speed even at his age is remarkable.

Obvious bias is obvious and undeniable but I still feel people judge him by his age rather than his performances.

Iamabeliever · 10-08-2023 02:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960666#Comment_120960666

What if Stockdale got held up by a 9 over the try line?

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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