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Tour de France 2023 ***spoilers*** Warning in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    That was an epic ride from Gall and Yates there. They both buried themselves and kept the advantage to a rampaging Ving who I'm sure wanted to win today's stage. Some fabulous riding on display again today.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke


    Thanks for all the previews. I kind of feel the same. I'll keep watching it all the way till the end though. What else is there to do on a July afternoon?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    He's had that coldsore for about a week now. He wrung himself inside out yesterday and while he did well, I don't believe he was on 100% form and went too deep trying to save the Tour. Jumbo probably reckoned he was goosed too, hence all the driving on in the earlier portions of the stage to try and break him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    I reckon Pogacar would have lost a bucket load of more time if he didn't have Marc Soler there with him



  • Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke


    Well I hope that he continues trying to tear up trees in the Spring. I'd hate to see him try and lose 5kgs and only concentrate on the Summer. I do think though that he can still improve for the Tour, even with a Spring campaign in his legs. For example, he has a very good time trial in him, but he could probably do a lot more there - body-shape wise.

    We'll barely see Vingegaard for the rest of the year, I presume?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,905 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Ah, I'm not sure about that. When a rider pops that badly having a teammate is really just for show. Maybe he saved a little time on the descent though.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,728 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    As much as you have to admire his talent and flair, he's probably going to have to prepare specifically for the Tour if he wants to win it again soon.

    His choice is to be one of the great classic riders or win a few more GTS?

    His 3rd week fatigue is probably due to his spring rather than a weakness on his part.

    A few days being the nail rather the hammer is probably going to force a rethink.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭Daroxtar


    I'm praying he's riding himself into shape for the Vuelta 😄



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    There's also the fact he had 6 weeks off-road in a turbo trainer with a broken wrist, didn't have any aero work done, not much altitude work and did he have any racing in his legs?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,026 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?



    I stand by my point. Jonas was far superior and either didn’t realise it or raced within himself until yesterday on purpose.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,026 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    It looks like competing in the spring and the Tour is impossible.


    So I think Pogacar will either do one or the other from now on. It’s a real shame.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,048 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well if he didn't get injured then who knows.

    Ide say he will give one more crack at being his usual self before he starts sacrificing some races for others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Last year he had a decent Spring campaign, wasn't injured and lost the Tour by close on 3 minutes



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    I can't imagine that a rider like Jonas, in a team like JV doesn't know exactly how well he is going. Last year he seemed to be a more insecure rider - like the time of the three bike changes on the cobbled stage, he panicked. This year, any time Pog got away, you never sensed Jonas felt he was in trouble and just kept riding back up to Pog.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Last year he didn't have a team so it seemed and tried to solo it for 3000km.


    Suggestion he had his ribs taped up today too from some of the pics



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,682 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    Spring campaign then the Giro next year maybe?

    Ayuso will get the TDF with Yates I reckon.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,026 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?



    Cant see anyone getting picked ahead of him, it’ll be his choice.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke


    He didn't know then though the level of challenger that he had. He probably thought that a good level of preparation was enough.

    Maybe he had a better training schedule planned this year, which got scuppered.

    It will be very interesting to see what he does next year. The problem with concentrating on the Tour though is that if he comes 2nd again, he'll have missed out on a classics campaign.

    One thing outside of his control which should aid him next year is that there should be more than just himself that Vingegaard has to focus on. Remco, Ayuso, maybe Roglic in a different team. The cast of characters at the top should be better next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    The good and bad news for Pog ( and Remco, Ayuso etc) is that they now know where the bar is set re: Vingo. Leaving out the bike handling, descending etc, Vingo's ride was probably of the greatest TT rides ever on a physiological basis. It's hard to see how even a fully fit Pog would have lost less than say 30 seconds. If the lads can't deliver those numbers, particularly in the third week of a GT, they're going to have to come up with some other way to mug Vingo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,628 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Back to the sprint stages tomorrow, but not a lot of big name sprinters actually left in the tour with Jakobsen, Caleb Ewan and Cavendish all gone. Hard to see past Philipsen adding to his tally, but Wout Van Aert will be licking his lips now that he’s freed from any domestique duties.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I thought Pog looked effed in the TT yesterday tbh, drawn face, no glasses, and maintained a weird stance on the bike throughout, I'd say he's suffering with something.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,026 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    He wasn’t injured last year and was beaten.


    I think it’s just too much racing versus an almost completely fresh Vingegaard

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,026 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I think he rode the whole climb in the red. He was obviously being given time checks and burying himself.


    No one can ever accuse him of not trying.


    Personally I believe he’s a better cyclist than Vigengaard, including over 3 weeks. But he needs to be properly prepared

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    Pogacar is still the most complete cyclist in the world. Hard to say how he would have performed had he not broken his wrist.


    I picked Ving to win but now I’m actually a little disappointed as what I really want is for Roglic to win the Tour. And I’m not sure he’ll get to go with Jumbo again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Agree, Best Mate won 3 gold cups and barely raced in between, riders who only target one race a year will never be true champions for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Mehaffey1


    Pogacar not at 100% healthy but is always a possibility in a 3 week tour come near the end.

    This year Vingengaard has really laid down the gauntlet and took things to another level that no one thought possible. We all love Pogacar but this year Vingengaard has not put a foot wrong. Seen a different intensity from him which I hadn't seen before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,682 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    One thing i admire JV is is the way he absolutely put Podjacar to the sword when he realised he was suffering last two days ruthless.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    He's had fewer racing days than JV this year. He also had 1 fewer racing days last year prior to the tour.


    The injury is the biggest difference this year and last year it was almost certainly the lack of team for Pogacar.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,026 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    ”Racing days” is a bit misleading.


    Pogacar raced monuments that were 270km in March! Plus the other big classics. Glass cranking flat stages in the Dauphine can’t be compared to that


    The wrist injury definitely didn’t help though.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I loved today to watch, just saying, the tour will still be interesting



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