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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,072 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    From the Guardian feed today:


    A gigantic pro-Russian mural realized by an Italian street artist on a bombed-out building in occupied Mariupol has sparked a row in Italy with the artist accused of plagiarism and spreading the Kremlin’s false information on the conflict in Ukraine.

    On 11 July, Italian street artist Ciro Cerullo, known as Jorit, announced on his Instagram profile that he had completed a mural in the devastated Ukrainian city. The mural features the little girl with the colours of the flag of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic in her eyes. Behind her, bombs with the word “Nato” are falling.

    “They lied to us about Vietnam, they lied to us about Afghanistan, they lied to us about Iraq, and now I have proof: they are also lying to us about Donbas”, Jorit wrote in his post on Instagram. ‘’Be wary of those who would like to give us morals, their hands are covered in blood.’’

    In an interview with Giornale Radio, Jorit said he had painted “a living little girl from Donbas who spent her first years in Mariupol surrounded by war”.

    However, a number of users on Instagram and Twitter pointed out the striking resemblance to a photograph that appeared on the 2018 cover of the Australian photography magazine Capture, realised by Australian photographer Helen Whittle with the subject being her daughter, the very same little girl allegedly used as a model by Jorit in Mariupol.


    As noted by Valigia Blu, an Italian non-profit independent fact-checking and debunking website focusing on journalism, “before the full-scale Russian invasion there was a mural dedicated to a Ukrainian girl from Mariupol, Milana Abdurashytova.’’

    “In January 2015, she was hit by a missile strike launched by pro-Russian separatist forces, and she lost her mother and a leg” reports Valigia Blu. “Three years later, to commemorate Milana Abdurashytova’s story, street artist Sasha Korban dedicated a mural to her on the facade of a building on Prospekt Myru. But after the occupation, the Russians covered it up. For the Ukrainians — and the legitimate administration of Mariupol — the occupiers are “trying to erase the 2015 tragedy from the memory of the city’s residents”.

    Soon after the Russian invasion – in late February – Mariupol was one of the first major cities to be encircled. Viewed as a key Kremlin objective, the city was the scene of a siege that the Red Cross has defined as “apocalyptic”. The outskirts of the city became the site of a mass grave, and the bodies of many more men, women and children were either dumped in the streets or remain buried beneath the rubble.

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    As always, these people are "useful idiots" for Putin's regime, they bolster and support Putin's disinfo and propaganda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,041 ✭✭✭jmreire


    What stops them from giving up... Fear, pure and simple. Its something that they know since their childhood. for sure, its a somewhat milder version than Kim Jong Un uses in North Korea, but just as effective nonetheless. I mean when you have several rings of soldiers behind the front lines to "encourage" them to fight, knowing that what ever chance you have against the enemy, you have no chance if you retreat. Famously shown in the movie about Leningrad, Enemy at the Gate. The same fear permeates throughout Russian society, and its one treason why ethnic Russians are not liked in the republics. As for the financial side, yes, all that military material has to be paid for, so I guess a large % of oil cash is now diverted away from the pockets of the Silovicki and Oligarchs, something that they're not terrible happy about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    despicable you'd think an artist would know better



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,041 ✭✭✭jmreire


    In Syria I met many older people, both men and women manning checkpoint's in what would not be considered hot zones, but needed monitoring none the less. They always had a younger military age person in charge. They served their purpose by freeing up military age soldiers for active war purposes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Turkey now saying that they won't be protecting grain shipments, due to fears of escalations from the Russians ..




    Post edited by Gatling on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭vixdname


    Hi all, is the "Telegraph" a traditionally anti Ukrainian paper or is there a feeling setting in in the media that the Ukrainian counter offensive has been a failure thus far ?

    Dont get me wrong, I'm 100% behind the Ukrainians and their war against the scum that is Russia but its disconcerting to see a number of headlines like the ones below in recent days online.

    Has the counter offensive been a failure up to now, in your opinion ?

    I'm reading about these "Probing attacks" for weeks now but the Russian defenses seem to have been under estimated, with Ukrainians not able, up to now, to achieve any relevant breakthrough.

    The Ukrainians are fighting with one arm tied behind their backs against the Orcs.

    Its obvious they are better equipped, better trained and more cohesive as a fighting force than the Russians are but the drip feed and stalling from the west seems to have given the Orcs the upper hand with lots of time given to them to prepare for the counter offensive, whilst the west decided whether to give Ukr Tanks, F16s, long range missiles etc etc etc.

    The equipment given this far to the Ukrainians is mostly suitable when it is complimented by sufficient air cover, but there basically is none...The western strategists in the US \ NATO etc all know this and would never allow their forces attempt such breakthroughs as Ukr is attempting without air cover, yet.. they expect the Ukrs to be able to do it ?

    Its all gone very strange and ones starting to think that the US in particular, under Biden, is doing one of two things.....A. Using the "expendable" Ukr troops as cannon fodder in order to diminish over time Russians military capabilities or B. Biden is genuinely "Afraid" of Putin and the possibility that if NATO "Upsets" Putin too much, the war will escalate into a much broader and globally serious war.

    To me, and boy could I be wrong, those two possibilities can be the only 2 reasons we're seeing this war continue in its current vein.

    Throw in a couple of miscalculations on the US \ NATOs part and we could indeed see Ukr having to concede land to the Orcs, irrespective of what bluster and defiance may emanate from Kyiv....the autumn is fast approaching, Ukr has not taken back anywhere near the land they and the rest of us had hoped they would have by mid July and a slowdown come the bad weather again will only allow the Russians dig even deeper to hold those lines.

    This is not a pretty picture for either side, but in my opinion, and I speak only for myself, I think we're at a very dangerous junction in this conflict, where time is quickly running out and if nothing substantial is gained within the next couple of months, this war will turn in to that stalemated attritional conflict we'd all hoped would not materialise, but even more dangerous, is how long the west will continue to back Ukr in such a protracted conflict before war fatigue, home audience discontent and financial issues become catalysts for mind changes in western powers

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,072 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    So much for "emboldened Erdogan"

    They may have to do it overland, but will be expensive as hell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,041 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I don't think that the new administration can "unwrite" laws and agreements made by the previous administration? Open to correction on this though. When the US left Afghanistan hurriedly, it was an agreement made by Trump 2 year's previously, but Biden had to follow through. Now it may have suited Bidens purpose to do just that, and blame Trump, that could have happened too and he could well have stopped the evacuation, I don't know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,072 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    As Zelensky said, it's not an action movie, don't expect huge progress. They've also admitted progress is slower than expected, which is normal (the Russians dug in all winter). They have to get through a vast number of mines, dug in defences. Keep in mind that Ukraine are mainly conducting probing attacks and haven't committed the bulk of their forces. They also have no real airpower. F16 training has only just been greenlighted.

    Last estimate was that Ukraine had liberated around 250 square km of territory in the past weeks, roughly equal to what the Russians took in 6 months in their Bahkmut offensive.

    Some newspaper writers are capitalising on concern over the counter-offensive, which is normal.

    At the end of the day, it's a war, no one has a crystal ball, and last check Russia holds around 16% of Ukraine, which is slowly decreasing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,666 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Do you expect them to continue probing and targeting supply lines/ammo dumps behind the front lines for the next few months, which would be effectively the remainder of 2023?

    Or do you think they will feel compelled to try to breach the Russian lines at some point before the autumn mud returns? If it's difficult (high casualties) to breach the Russian lines during summer 2023, won't the cost be higher in Spring 2024 when the Russians will be even more entrenched?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Words would fail you, when you think our branch of Roman Catholicism has it's failings, the Orthodox leaders are scum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,133 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Breaking news

    Leo varadker just arrived in Kiev Putin must be bricking it ,






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,058 ✭✭✭Polar101


    "We are giving a further €5 million in humanitarian aid to Ukraine – €3 million to be spent in Ukraine by the Red Cross for its vital work, and €2 million to the UN fund,” Mr Varadkar said."

    Big spender Leo - every little bit helps I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But didn't give it to Ukraine directly....


    He must be afraid of something



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Because clearly had he given it to the Ukrainian government you'd have had everyone from campists to SF grousing that Ireland was funding the war effort - ergo - something something neutrality.

    I know it's kneejerk to immediately stink eye anything Varadkar does as suss, but it just looks like a simple bit of European solidarity to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    €2m to the UN, an organisation set up to avoid such catastrophic wars. But which is shown to be worthless when it's needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Eh. It largely depends on how trustworthy you want your country to be seen. If you repeatedly disregard deals people will stop making deals. If you don't really care about the long term you can cancel whatever deals you like (with approval from other branches) so theoretically Trump could do it. However arms manufacturing owns enough politicians on both sides that it isn't a real threat.


    I guess the rare case when arms manufacturing priorities line up with my beliefs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,650 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Unfortunately the US elections are around 17 month's away and at the rate Ukraine are retaking territory Putin will feel confident they can hold out until then.

    Trump is such an extremist and not very pro EU and if he turns his back on Ukraine they'd be in trouble. Hopefully America provide as many Abram's, f16's and ATACMS as possible before then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,923 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    That guys not a useful idiot ,

    He's a deliberate propagandist -

    He knows what he's saying and doing is russian government lies , but he's pushing it anyway .. maybe its how he'd like to see the world -

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Considering the dragging of the feet to supply Ukraine with artillery shells, along with other hugely vital equipment, Biden isn't going to be flooding Ukraine with Abrams or F16s anytime soon,it's more than likely he's had his hands tied on certain items,

    For instance Europe is struggling to find 1 million artillery shells for Ukraine,ask how many artillery shells the US currently has in stores inexcess of 400 million shells,the EU created a budget to purchase shells for Ukraine but in the wording of the deal the fund is there to buy shells for Ukraine and to restock countries who are running out of shells after giving to Ukraine,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,072 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,666 ✭✭✭✭josip


    In the "Trumpian president turns his back on Ukraine" scenario you've outlined above, I think the people who should be the most concerned are Trump and the Republican Party. Do you think the US armaments industry would stand idly by and allow a new administration that would diminish their revenue stream? They'll either have solid guarantees from potential Republican candidates or they'll be putting all their weight behind the Ukraine-supporting Dems.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The entire Russian Narrative for this invasion has basically been a real-life recreation of the aliens from Mars Attacks; chanting "we come in peace" as they indiscriminately lay waste to Earth's cities and people - sometimes just for fun.

    The only difference between real-life and Tim Burton's 1990s film is he couldn't have figured there'd be humans defending the Martians' rights to invade us, that we encouraged or even provoked them by our existence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The biggest military industry revenues come from US military contracts, while the Americans are giving billions most of which doesn't involve high ticket items being produced as new ,they are being equipped from stuff sitting in stores for most part



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,923 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Yup , and a lot of the stuff being sent is end of life in the US, so its has been taking up space in reserve depots for years , and would then cost to decommision it ,

    So the cheapest way is send it to ukraine , not exactly big business items though ..

    New longer range gmlrs coming on stream soon , plenty of older bradleys , strikers,humvees on the way out ,

    The recently announced ( and much requested ) Dpicm cluster munition of the which the US has huge stocks is being replaced ,

    The big exceptions to that being patriots and Javelins..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭vixdname


    I understand they haven't committed 100% of their forces yet but there's now 100,000 Russian troops gathering along with supposedly 900 tanks and a swath of artillery to the north of Ukraine (Source: Sky News).

    If when the Russians start to attack from there it will take a large contingent of the UKr troops not yet fighting away from where they were already planned to fight in the east or south of the country, where the main offensive is currently taking place.

    This will surely hamper big time the original UKr offensive plans.

    I just hope Ukr can work through this, maybe the cluster ammunitions are being sent just in time to help counter those 100,000 Orcs.....time will tell



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    400million shells, that sounds made up.

    Unless you mean all calibers and including poultry!

    Or did you just Google and not read and see 400 million submunitions from cluster shells (70-88 submunitions per shell)?

    Puts the US cluster shell stockpile at around 5 million.



This discussion has been closed.
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