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Tour de France 2023 ***spoilers*** Warning in OP

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Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    It was clear he couldnt stay with yates , Ving should have attacked then but maybe he couldnt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    I'm just loving this Tour. No criticism of either rider/ team from me. There's been something kicking off almost every stage... so many different plotlines. A far cry from the Skytrain days where you were watching paint dry after the third stage as the life got sucked out of the race. I really do think we're witnessing an edition that will be remembered for decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    It'd be more like the Sky days if either one of them was missing though!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 714 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    I think Pog was trying a bit of a rope a dope yesterday. After Yates went away and Rodriguez was in front he kept half dropping Jonas' wheel. I thought this was Jonas' time to go but in the end it was Pog who attacked. I think Jonas was also pretty close to his limit as we saw earlier this tour and last year if he can ride away he will.

    Its probably fair to say that this year we have 2 incredibly evenly matched riders and it has been amazing to watch. I also don't think anybody can say with any level of certainty which way the ITT is going to go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    What happens if there is only a handful of seconds between them at the start of the final stage into Paris ?

    Does it then become unceremonial or do they still draw the line at the Saturday result ?

    As far as I am know, the Sunday stage events is 100% traditional and tradition can be broken without breaking rules.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,673 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Any time I can remember that it is close to becoming possible the rider in 2nd has come out and guaranteed the final day as a non GC day.

    Even if they tried they wouldn't have a hope anyway.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Vingegaard had the power to respond to attacks, that means he had the power to attack first. But he rarely does. It’s hard to watch.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    No. The winner is decided the day before Paris.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Erm, not sure about that. It hasn't come up as it hasn't been close enough, but purely ceremonial is relatively recent because the winner has been so far in front. In 87, Roche did a deal with Superconfex that he wouldn't go for points in order for them to help control a possible Delgado attack (Roche was leading the Points/ Green Jersey going into Paris).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    He had the power to respond to those attacks. Who knows what he had left in the tank of Pog had sustained his attacks for a bit longer. If you're on the limit you respond to attacks as best you can, but it would be an almighty bluff to then attack yourself at the risk of blowing up and seeing Pog go over the top.

    I'm finding it fascinating to watch.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,741 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    The stage being so flat and the prestige of the Champs-Élysées for the sprint teams sort of rules out any real chance of an attack anyways. The sprint teams will just chase down any breakaway, giving Jumbo/UAE a carpet ride up to whoever jumps, and then the leadout trains will leave the others in their wake by the time they get to the circuit.

    Pog is fast and fancies himself in a sprint, but the proper sprinter teams will be putting everything on the line for that final stage win



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭devonp


    what bikes for the TT tmrw ? change at the btm of the second climb ?

    normal/light road bike would seem the better choice...?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,673 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Relatively recent is as you said relative. The tradition is older that both Pog and Vingo.

    Pog taking yellow in the TT would be good for the race I think.JV can be entertaining when they need to be.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    2.5km @9% is doable on a TT bike, I think. It’ll be interesting to see what they actually do though.



    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,673 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ide say we will see bike changes. They are so practiced at it now you lose little time. I definitely think Pogs will as he seems to have it down to a T.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭cosalofa


    Vino moved up to 5th on the final day in 2005. He was 2 seconds behind Leipheimer going into the stage. He clawed back the 2 seconds during an intermediate sprint and then won the stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    Given the final day is ceremonial I'm surprised the organisers even offered time bonuses at intermediate sprints

    I wonder did a break ever stick on the final day ? Guys certainly chance their own, did it ever happen though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,480 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    You’re responding to a post telling you the break won.

    It’s “ceremonial” only because the winner is usually decided and the stage is short and easy. Teams have fought for green on the last day and of course the stage win isn’t ceremonial

    If there’s (say) 2 seconds in it, the man in second will absolutely try everything they can to win

    Some may remember Eddie Dunbar sprinting in the Giro final stage this year to ensure he didn’t lose 7th as only a couple of seconds ahead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭cosalofa


    To be fair, I don't think that Vino was in a break so to speak when he won. I vaguely remember him attacking in the final kms. Of course you could consider that to be a break.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭griffin100


    I think having bonus seconds for stage wins and climbs makes a huge difference to the racing. There's no more gifting stages with GC riders happy to allow other contenders take the stage as long as they get the same time. You can see how the race for bonus seconds has really got the top 2 riders and their team mates exorcised.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,673 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I think they should extend it though and maybe have bonuses for the top 10.

    Those "gifted" stages are an important part of the economy of cycling and it'll do no good to see JV or UAE winning all the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,841 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    I wonder will we ever see a time trial finish on the champs in Paris again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,673 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Only if France develops a GC winning TT monster I would say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,108 ✭✭✭✭neris


    No chance. I don't really like TTs as the last stage of the Giro but the last stage of the tour can be a bore



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    iirc at least one of the laps of the champs has been an intermediate sprints since they reintroduced them. There was a Vuelta a few years pack where Valverde took the points jersey from Rodriguez on the Madrid stage too.

    Not really sure how I feel on bonus seconds - adds to the racing, but then winner of a GT should be the time on the road, so I prefer when they don't decide GC. It doesn't really make sense that there's a bigger differential 3rd to 4th, than 2nd to 3rd either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,328 ✭✭✭G1032


    Very hard to disagree with this. Ya, I can see what you're saying alright



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,233 ✭✭✭bmc58


    That scenario would be incredible and talked about for ever.I doubt it though,tradition in The Tour would win .No rider would like to have the record of breaking a long held tradition in the Tour.Tradition and sportsmanship counts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,233 ✭✭✭bmc58


    I think Vingegarrd has Pogacar's measure now.He will wrap it up next with one big day in the mountains.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,480 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    I’ll say it again, it’s only “ceremonial” because the gaps have been too big for anyone to gain enough time on a short, flat stage.

    Every rider and team in the peleton would try all they could to win the Tour if they were only a couple of seconds behind



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    And that’s totally as it should be. It is a race after all. All the posing with champagne and yellow bikes etc always comes across as a bit twee to me.



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