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The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,621 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Monaghan have a small population also, about 60k. I really think counties like Monaghan and Roscommon should be focused on by the GAA to somehow give them that extra push to make AI finals. It just feels like they are knocking on the door for years, but are generally a couple players and maybe a few backroom members short of making AI finals. Its hugely difficult for the smaller counties to make the step up to AI final level.

    It feels like we are in for yet more years of Kerry and Dublin dominance. The rest like Roscommon, Galway, Monaghan, Derry, etc have reached a level but just can't go that further step of reaching finals or winning outright.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,430 ✭✭✭Seadin


    Ok we understand you, Kerry are going to win the All Ireland, Dublin havent a hope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Do they want the likes of Derry, Roscommon or Monaghan involved in finals though?

    Financially, it's more lucrative to have the big guns involved year in year out, casual fans can get to know their favorite teams and players and not have culchies and Nordies stinking the place out of it. There are only so many bums on seats and TV subs the likes of Derry, Roscommon and Monaghan can provide too, so it's a losing game for HQ. Even look at the snobbery around here when these teams play their own game to give themselves a chance, anti - football comments and the likes.

    From a marketing point of view, there would be better return investing in getting Meath, Cork, maybe Kildare and Galway/Mayo competing for and winning all Ireland's



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The game was Derrys to lose at half time, and they lost it. You cant blame the referee for that.

    They lack the game management ability that the top teams all have - slowing down the game when momentum is with the other team, lots of fouls high up the pitch to slow their counterattacks, and shite lateral handpassing to settle things when they do get possession back.

    All the top teams do it when they are a bit ropey to kill the momentum of the game. Derry kept attacking and ended up with poor shot selection and silly turnovers that Kerry exploited massively because they had such momentum in that 2nd half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,310 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Putting two men on David Clifford would leave gaps elsewhere for Geaney, O'Shea etc to exploit.

    You can get tight to David Clifford though as he spins his man with ease, tremendous strength and power. The only other option I can think of is marking 'the space' around him and not Clifford himself.

    To me Clifford is very similar type of player to former Donegal player Michael Murphy -

    1) A Constant workhorse (as seen by his chasing back deep in his own half yesterday)

    2) Tremendous strength

    3) Tremendous Core Strength/balance

    4) Has lots of pace (Murphy did when he was younger)

    5) Great in the air - the advanced mark is child's play for him

    6) Can take a score from long range with ease

    7) Is a head up footballer and can bring others into the game

    --

    If anyone has any other ideas to stop David Clifford - send them on to Dessie Farrell and the Dublin County Board!

    Post edited by gormdubhgorm on

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭FullBack Jam


    But surely it is testament to how good he really is that that average enough Kerry team won the All-Ireland last year, and are in it again this year - and nobody can deny that without David Clifford that would not have happened. And he got player of the year last year, and odds on favourite again to win it this year.

    He is incredible. People chipping away here out of begrudgery. Nobody knows yet how his career will progress, but in the 6 years that he has come on the scene, he has been the greatest player ever at that particular age anyway - from 18 to 24. Hard to believe he is still only 24. If he can continue to keep fit, and maintain the desire to continue with the sacrifices that go with intercounty football for another 6 years, he will be a phenomenon. The man scored 4 goals and 4 points in a minor match only 6 years ago. That's amazing and was a foretell of what was to come.

    Some awful stupid comments on here - someone questioning his skill levels. There was some comment down-playing the incredible piece of skill that he did in the Tyrone game. I was sitting in the Hogan very close when that happened. And you could hear the awe spreading through the crowd when he kicked it back over his shoulder. It was one of those moments - "did he really do that". To have the speed of thought to realise that if 2 Tyrone guys were close to him, that there should be a free Kerry guy inside, and to actually be able to execute the kick in 2 seconds is excellent. No other player in the game would have done that move.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,594 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I think an average enough Kerry team won an All Ireland because everyone else is fairly average at the minute. They probably wouldn't have done it without him though and yes his skill should not be questioned.

    "The greatest player his age" though I don't know. Maybe he is maybe he isn't and to be honest I find this things hard to judge and don't really agree with statements that definitive about any player.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "The greatest player his age" though I don't know

    He might only end up with one All Ireland.

    They are an average enough team, I'd expect Dublin to beat them this year.

    And looking beyond that, Galway have some lovely forwards so I'd expect them to be in the mix for the next few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,871 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    It's inevitable that Dublin and Kerry when you factor in they always get the majority of close calls in close games. At this point the GAA look worse then FIFA. At least they pretend they want minnow's to make finals. If the gaa could have a Dublin v Kerry final every year for eternity they'd be delighted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,337 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    People who talk endlessly about biased referees are the emptiest vessels in sport



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,682 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    It's a very subtle conspiracy. They get the majority of close calls, enough to see them over the line. But the referee also gives a minority of close calls to the opposition, so as not to make it seem too blatant. Congratulations to all involved in this conspiracy, and I hope the referees are getting well paid for their co-operation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭TCDStudent1


    Thought the Clifford hit was fair. However, I am beginning to wonder about the shoulder rule these days. There are some very big hits going in that are within the rules but do have the potential to injure players. There are generally not a huge amount of shoulders in a match. But when the big hit comes in (like Clifford’s for example), could there be a day when the player on the receiving end doesn’t get up?

    I’m not sure myself on whether I’d get rid of the rule. Just more that it could be looked at a bit more closely. Reading this thread, it looks like the Clifford shoulder has divided opinions so how clear is the rule?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,657 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    I did wonder about McKaigue being left one on one with Clifford, especially since none of the other Kerry forwards were much use, perhaps he could have been given more help.

    But then it also seems clear that Derry had a gameplan to control the ball and it did not allow for two man markers. They clearly felt it better to control the ball at source rather than trying to mark Clifford, which was shown well by that instance in the 2nd half where they felt comfortable leaving Clifford all on his own while they had the ball.

    Its hard to say that their plan didn't work. They did control the game, for all the talk Clifford did only score 4 from play, all the other forwards were very subdued. It was a good gameplan that put a div 2 side in touching distance of the final so its hard to argue with that one part of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    Why would there be a conspiracy to favour Kerry? Isnt one of the age old, not particularly funny, comments that we dont bring big numbers of supporters to games.

    The GAA do worse financially by having Kerry in the latter stages - a Derry v Tyrone semi would have sold out and the final will sell out no matter what.

    There is a commercial benefit in favouring Dublin as they have the biggest population and is the wealthiest part of the country, etc. although they win because they have excellent players

    What benefit is there for the GAA in favouring Kerry so? Thats not a rhetorical question either - I would love to hear your reasoning for constantly saying this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I have to agree that Kerry are favourites.

    However, will it be as easy for them to target one player to take them out of the game like they did with McGuigan yesterday? You could target Costello, Con or Fenton, but not all three. Kerry got away with an awful lot yesterday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,657 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    While the Ryan hit was worse than the Clifford hit, I thought both were bad and deserved cards.

    How the ref did not stop the game after the Ryan hit was beyond me. I heard people saying he did nothing wrong, that it was just unfortunate that a player got whacked in the head with one of the most solid parts of the human body.

    But who gives a **** whose fault it was or whether he meant to do it, why is there not a strict duty of care to make sure the other player is safe?

    If you can jump into a players head like that and then claim that no rules were broken then that is a problem for the sport. It absolutely should follow Rugby in that the onus should be on all not to make contact with another players head, and all should get disciplined if it happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80,639 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Like Monaghan, they got a lot right but just didn't convert their chances.

    Will be an interesting final, two defences that can be breached (quite easily at times) with two sets of forwards that would be more consistent/clinical scorers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80,639 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not so much biased as bad and inconsistent would be my view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Absolutely agree, it was shocking that the ref let it go.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,117 ✭✭✭crusd


    This Galway team have to do it in the next year or two. Walsh turns 31 next year, Comer and Heaney 30, Conroy will be 35. The likes of Kelly, Daly, Cooke, Silke, Molloy are at their peak at 26/27/28. 3 years time they will be on a downward trajectory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 214 ✭✭jack67




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,117 ✭✭✭crusd


    You might identify the rule broken by Ryan that warranted a card?


    Ref's cant go changing the rules mid game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,714 ✭✭✭dobman88


    A textbook example of how to use a fair shoulder. It's about as perfect as it gets and I'd wonder if anyone saying it's a foul and yellow has ever played the game.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,117 ✭✭✭crusd


    Some will still insist the yellow was warranted. And don't forget it was also a point for Derry from the free that shouldn't have been



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,337 ✭✭✭Did you smash it


    I would say GAA is falling into the same trap as soccer where referee’s performances are microanalysed for any perceived mistakes. Any of the controversial decisions yesterday have as many saying the ref got it right as saying the ref getting it wrong. There is no consensus so overall ref can sleep soundly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80,639 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You need to filter out the sour grapes comments. Then I think you'll find that there are a majority who think that refereeing in the game can be awful at times.

    I am mindful that they are amateurs too but the inconsistency is the biggest problem IMO.

    I would suggest something like what rugby has. A TMO who can intervene if a bad decision is made or if something needs a second look. Has made rugby an infinitely better game even if a side effect is slowing it down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    That hit had a huge effect on the game, McGuigan wasn't right after it

    It's less a critism of the referee, but I'd question if he was concussed. He faded from the game very quickly after a very good first half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,535 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Clifford is a fabulous player. I got to witness his brilliance up close at bunch of matches last year none more so than the league final against Mayo.

    But make no mistake Kerry don't win that AI last year or in the final this without their defence.

    Every team in Ireland play the same 14-15 men behind the ball now. The two best at turning the ball over in their own 40 and counter-attacking at speed are in this years final



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is clear from the video that it wasn't shoulder to shoulder. The rule on shoulder to shoulder was addressing parallel challenging for the ball, it was never to address the type of perpendicular challenge in that video, which was as much shoulder to chest as shoulder to shoulder.

    Probably didn't merit a yellow though, however, it did confirm that Kerry were deliberately targetting McGuigan. Nothing in the rules to stop that, but that maybe why McQuillan produced a yellow after his failure with the Ryan challenge which was far far worse.



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