30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way

But the statistics don't say that only one in 700 drivers that day was speeding. They say that one in 700 drivers that day was speeding as they passed a checkpoint. There's a significant difference.

If you don't believe those stats, I have to ask if you're equally suspicious of Ciarán Cannon's statistics? Or how exactly do you pick and choose which statistics you believe and which you don't?

I strongly doubt that results of any speed survey in Castlemartyr would be exactly the same as the one in Craughwell. Therefore, they're different.

Also, nowhere did I say or even suggest that some breakneck speed idiot turning his car over isn't a safety issue. I merely pointed out the obvious that the manner in which he drove is not exactly typical of traffic there.

Anyway, I just got involved here to bring some context to the survey conducted in Craughwell, to show that it was at a point on a straight stretch of open road, far better than many other roads (and even many other stretches of the same road) where an 80km/h limit applies. Also to show it's exactly the sort of spot you'd pick if you wanted results to show a high proportion of drivers and an average speed over the limit.

And either way, still little or nothing to do with a debate over whether 30km/h limits in urban areas are justified, so I'm going back to just watching here instead of contributing.

And what about the 5 million odd people in the country who walk for whom urban areas will be now a lot safer for? If you are going to play the numbers game measures that slow down cars in urban areas will always have significant upside as everyone is a pedestrian and not everyone has a drivers licence.

The biggest problem about the 30km/hr speed limit is that it won't be enforced. This means most people won't obey the speed limit as it won't be enforced/enforced once in a blue moon.

The other point is as been made numerous times is that moving the speed limit from 50km/hr to 30km/hr will have no real impact on average speed, time and fuel wastage because vehicles spend a lot of time stopped at traffic lights or behind other vehicles anyway.

The fuel wasting argument you have made gets worse. Speeding up to 50km/hr just to have to slam on the breaks seconds later is a great example of fuel/wastage. So much energy is wasted when braking, electric cars can recover this energy to recharge batteries. The less braking required the less energy wasted.

Someone complaining about speed in 30kph zone isn't planning on parking in much.

What I was actually implying was the complete opposite - that just because somebody wasn't breaking the limit as they passed a checkpoint, doesn't mean that they didn't break it at some other point of their journey. Maybe only one out of 700 was over the limit as they passed a checkpoint, but who's to know how many of the other 699 didn't break it some other time?

But as it happens, what you point out is also valid. It's also possible for a driver to exceed the limit only once during their journey, be caught by a speed camera while doing so, and then return to a speed below the limit for the rest of their journey.

Thank you for helping me to make the point.

The title of the thread is "30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way" so ... nationwide. Affecting virtually all of the 2.8 million. And I'd expect it to add several minutes to a lot of journeys, especially off-peak journeys in places that are not Dublin City Centre.

So when you said...

"...speeding as they passed a checkpoint... "

..you meant...

"...somebody wasn't breaking the limit as they passed a checkpoint..."

ok 🤣

Not for the first time, you're attempting to twist my words in something I never said, intended, or suggested.

Good day.

As I strongly suspected, you've missed the entire point of my posts, which was simply to point out that if you want particular stats to suit a particular agenda, there are frequently ways to get them.

If you wanted stats to suggest that speeding is endemic through 60km/h zones in rural villages, those figures from Craughwell would suit you. You'd be hoping that people wouldn't look closer and realise the survey was actually conducted on a relatively wide and good quality stretch of straight road, approximately 1km from the actual village centre.

If you wanted stats to suggest that speeding isn't actually a problem at all, those figures from the National Slow Down Days would suit you. You'd be hoping it wouldn't occur to people that just because a driver wasn't speeding as they passed a checkpoint, doesn't mean they didn't speed at other points of their journey.

I am not undermining any set of figures. I am merely illustrating how the entire context in which they were gathered must be considered before drawing conclusions from them.

Again, good day.

Well, let's agree on something. :)

You're correct that I wasn't undermining any figures. I wasn't even attempting to do so.

On your second point - am not sure you can fail at something you don't even attempt to do. To paraphrase Fr. Jack Hackett, that would be a metaphysical matter.

You may now have the last word if you wish. You certainly seem determined to get it.

Well, if you wallpaper the country with 30kph speed limits, common sense dictates "what percentage" will be considerable. As to why I regard "default" as being another word for "near universal" ... well we got a preview of what "30kph as default" might look like with Dublin City Council's "Love 30" consultation in which virtually all roads, including main arterial routes, were to be capped at 30kph with only a very small number of exceptions.

And it's rather obvious to me given the general sentiment towards people who drive on this forum, that this is what is desired. Nationwide.

Go back and read what Ciaran Cannon actually said: "cars entering a 60km/h zone" a.k.a. the countryside. If you're seriously trying to pretend it wasn't a tactical choice, you're just gaslighting.

If it was part of a variable speed limit like that on the M50 (albeit, more limited), people mightn't be so quick to disagree. It should vary based on how built up it is for sure and not a 24 hour speer limit.

Let's just say it is the dead of night i.e. no one around, do you still think 30KM/H is appropriate?

I would imagine that the conditions should be a dictating factor as I doubt the driving populace would be okay with crawling along when no one is there to benefit from it.

Agreed.

But, @patrickbrophy18 do you seriously think it's going to be enforced? There may be the odd camera which will be common community knowledge within five minutes due to tech comms we all have. The only time the offence will come in to effect is the Gardai use to as an excuse to stop someone they're familiar with or if there's a tragic accident & vehicular forensics are availed of.

Look at road traffic offences & enforcement now. There was a time when jumping red lights was an offence, now it's the done thing, a free for all and only becomes an offence when there's an accident. NOBODY gets punished for it until there's a bang and even then speeding, or light breaking isn't really taken in to consideration.

It's a "carry on as you did" until the **** hits the fan for you, me or the person we crash in to.

Most of the time, the calibre of people walking or cycling at night are adults. It is hoped that at this point in their lives, they have their street smarts about them and are accustomed to observing the road around them. As such, 50KM/H shouldn't be an issue. Blanket 30KM/H speed limits come off as mollycoddling.

Why not make the M50 unlimited, see how "smart" people are then?

The lack of awareness of how unpleasant high speed traffic in the urban environment is. Do any of ye ever leave the car.