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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    Pizza delivery vehicle (can also deliver mines)


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    British former Air vice-Marshal Sean Bell (always on Sky News) doesn't sound very hopeful, says Ukraine can't push Russia out of it's territory entirely and it's going to be a case of where the lines are drawn.

    The worry here is, is this actually a war that's winnable from a Ukraine perspective?

    If you explore those questions... you come to the conclusion that this is possibly not a winnable war for Ukraine.... Ukraine will probably never liberate Crimea and the Donbass. Therefore it's more a question of where the line gets drawn on the map as to when the war stops.

    The West has it's domestic priorities <cost of living crisis etc>...we don't have the weapons in our inventory ... we can't keep going like this

    https://imgur.com/xf6whIT



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,185 ✭✭✭Polar101


    I'd have to disagree with the former Air Vice-Marshal. There's no reason why "we" can't keep going like this. There's plenty of weapons and financial support to give - it's up to Ukraine to decide when the war reaches a point where they don't want to keep fighting.

    It's more likely Russia will reach a point where they can't go on first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun


    The Brits are obsessed with drawing arbitrary lines on maps.

    It never ends well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I haven't seen the interview, but what did he mean 'we don't have the weapons in our inventory'?

    I assume he means the west and not specific to the UK, because the French can still give Ukraine SCALP, Germany Taurus, the US ATACMS and cluster shells. I'm not sure how Russia can hold Crimea if the bridge is destroyed and assuming Ukraine cut off the land bridge (they don't need to take the whole Donbass to do that)

    Even just taking back the front line back to 2022 lines would itself be a win for Ukraine. But I still fail to see how any kind of agreement could ever be reached with Russia while they still occupy Ukrainian land.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    I do like Sean Bell & Michael Clark appraisals

    Russia has a far bigger army the partial mobi never stopped and is getting plenty of weapons from many sources outside, its morale and defences that where not supposed to hold up against western equipment hasn't happen to their credit its a 600km line

    Ukraine as it is will be a basket case if it stays the way it is under constant Russian attriction would it be worth rebuilding? or just use it as a buffer against an uncivilised aggressor who cannot be trusted again.

    West still trades with Russia many big multinationals are not sanctioned so unfortunately we need its 160million to buy out tooth paste and pharmacy products so I think we will see a NK type partition at the end of the year.

    Sadly this is not what I wanted.

    Post edited by dennis72 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun


    The Russian Army was supposed to take Kyiv in three days. After the annexation of Crimea Putin predicted he could roll over the country in days if he wanted to. Since his army was forced to retreat on multiple fronts with Ukraine using old Soviet relics and captured Russian junk, the Western equipment has been very slow coming and still they're probably not yet fully trained on using it.

    The way things are going Russia is becoming deindustrialised and reduced to scavenging parts from washing machines and buying 1980's Chinese ammunition from Iran. Which parts of the broken Russian Federation are worth salvaging as either independent states, to eventually join the EU, or reincorporated into the nations they were stolen from will be decided at a peace conference. Finland are in early, Poland have claims too.

    Putin will go down in history as the dictator who sent Russia to the same grave as Prussia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    As this year has shown, a "far bigger army" means absolutely nothing if your army is: badly trained under an inept officer class; reduced to dusting off Cold War equipment hopelessly out of date; logistics utterly reliant on interior rail networks; the country's industrial military complex utterly stalled; troops reduced to hoarding tampons in the absence of medical supplies. Not sure how you think Iranian or Chinese cast offs constitutes "plenty of weapons" either, considering we just had a mutiny based around the problem Russian forces aren't getting the ammunition needed to prosecute this Invasion in the first place. Even with the element of surprise and total aggression, Russia couldn't take Kyiv. A modicum of training and good equipment and Ukraine is slowly suffocating the invasion.

    The counter offensive is slow because in the absence of any tactical advantage whatsoever, Russia has created two lines of defenses flooded with trenches and mines; but progress is happening, just because it's not the lightning attacks of months ago doesn't mean things aren't going on the right direction. Superior armies don't stop dead in their tracks and stick their heads in the sand. This has basically become a siege writ large and Russia can't sit behind its minefields forever. If Ukraine gets more air power, those trenches will look even more quaint and anachronistic.

    And frankly, talking about Ukraine as some "buffer" state of geopolitical convenience is exactly the kind of hubris, regime change indulging Western narrative we're supposed to deride and condemn, ain't it? At least according to the Wallace's of the world; Ukraine not allowed to make its own destiny. We're here because Ukraine didn't want to be a no man's land, but establish more connections with its (wealthy, peaceful) Western neighbours.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    Zelenskyy spoke to Spanish journalists and stated Russia will blow the nuke plant remotely to freeze the war to build up its army I think he could be right and then return to finish the job.

    the west need to go in even for the ramdon missile attacks on civilian are a reason enough its genocide in play and more to come.

    A safe buffer zone in the West where civilian can be safe and a couple of hospitals that can't be bombed.

    An effective quick offence was required was a big ask for an army who have given their all but it won't work now.

    Russia will blow the nuke station at some stage to their advantage the west must warn that it is the same as a bomb, not heard that said yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭prunudo


    My fear would be that they will damage the power plant, or critical parts of it, not destroy it. It will be just enough to cause problems but also little enough to cause Nato to dither about the response.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭macraignil


    "Russia will blow the nuke station at some stage to their advantage the west must warn that it is the same as a bomb, not heard that said yet."

    Don't know how you have not heard the repeated statements from NATO members that any incident caused by putin or his proxy's that leads to radioactive contamination will lead to severe consequences for putin's forces. Here is a link I already posted with further details:

    Only the most optimistic would have expected the forces of putin to just collapse at the start of the Ukrainian counteroffensive. Cracks are appearing and the Ukrainians are wearing down the defenses putin has established in the occupied territories:

    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun


    Zelensky needs the World, especially China, to know Putin is playing with fire. God forbid Kim Jung Un got ideas on leveraging a nuclear disaster on the Korean peninsula.

    Putin is running out of credible threats to the West to stop the flow of ammunition and modern equipment. His bluff has been called on all his red lines from Himars to tanks and now F-16s are coming.

    A Nuclear disaster at Zaporizhizha, with unpredictable consequences, would be the end for Putin and anyone associated with him. Chernobyl was an accident and it brought down the Soviet Union.

    NATO conventional retaliatory strikes when radioactive dust starts falling on NATO countries. They've promised to take out the Black Sea fleet and other strategic infrastructure. Russia can't respond without triggering a planet killing nuclear exchange.

    If Putin was that mad he'd drop a nuke in the North Sea or off the coast of Donegal first as an opening gambit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun


    That would be an interesting conversation with a Nuclear plant technician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭Fastpud


    Add a much salt as you feel necessary but twitter igorsushko has posted


    ”Rumor: Ramzan 'TikTok' Kadyrov, Putin-appointed dictator and terrorizer of Chechnya is on his deathbed and can no longer speak.”



  • Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I haven't seen the interview, but what did he mean 'we don't have the weapons in our inventory'?

    He means the arms shipments are not sustainable. Some countries which support Ukraine are coming under internal pressure to halt shipments because they're worried about depleting their own arsenal too much.

    For example Germany is reported to be down to 20,000 artillery shells. That's a joke, that would last a day or two in Ukraine.

    He's speaking figuratively. Of course there are some new systems which can be given. But to sustain a war you need a broad supply incl continuous re-supply of ammo for existing weapons.

    Russia are expending weapons and ammo at a high rate also, of course. But it's reasonable to assume the former Air Vice-Marshal has factored that into his assessment. For example the claim that Russia are running out of missiles featured heavily in Western press for the first year of the war. More recently many analysts started to walk back on that claim.

    it is unrealistic to expect Russia to ever “run out” of missiles. Despite sanctions and export controls, it appears likely that Russia will be able to produce or otherwise acquire the long-range strike capacity necessary to inflict significant damage upon Ukraine’s people, economy, and military.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    I haven't seen any reports of internal pressure causing countries that support Ukraine from halting shipments.

    Some baltic countries have literally emptied their armories of artillery. There's been record arms packages announced from counties over the past few months. Since January there's been a massive increase in arms.

    The shell issue is still a serious issue though. Shell production should have been put on a war footing and just pump them out for Ukraine.

    The claim about Russia running out of missiles keeps getting dragged up. It's not like one day they will fire their last missile.

    Before the war, they had a stockpile, that's pretty much depleted and they rely on newly produced missiles. Hence the reason the mass missile attacks occur less often and with less missiles and needing Iranian drones to accompany them. Ukraine literally use to post a monthly chart of the estimated number of Russian missiles in stock, the number produced each month and how many have been used by Russia. Hard to believe analysts didn't know that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Yeah sub continent India 1946 led to massive ethnic cleansing due to the brits (Cyril Radcliffe and lord mountbatten) drawing lines on maps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,891 ✭✭✭✭briany


    If there's one thing we should have learned from following this conflict the last nearly year and a half, it's that we don't know what either side truly has in reserve or what their logistical situation looks like. You know, it's almost as if that information is quite sensitive and that it's very much in the interest of the participants to obfuscate the hell out of it. With respect to that, the only way we ordinary people are going to get a really accurate picture of what the state of the forces actually looks like on this day will probably be in a history book.

    Why would Sean Bell or any representative of the British armed forces, a noted ally of Ukraine, go on television and try to give an accurate picture of Ukrainian supply if that picture was a pessimistic one? What would there be to gain? All it would do is boost Russian morale and lower that of Ukraine's. It would also have major, major implications for Europe in general, essentially telling Russia (perhaps as part of a military alliance with China) that they could simply attrition warfare their way across eastern Europe - the West has not the supply to keep up. This would be a big no-no.

    "Appear strong when you are weak, and weak when you are strong"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun


    Britain was straight out the gates in supporting Ukraine. Which has been great for Ukraine as it piled pressure on other countries.

    However, knowing what we know about their political situation, it was primarily for show.

    Initially for Boris Johnson it was a 'go to' diversion when one of his scandals hit the news and the Def. Sec Ben Wallace has been building a political future off it. Rishi Sunak is using the platform a bit less but you don't spend that much on two aircraft carriers with no support fleet if you're not going to double down on conventional capabilities you don't really have.

    Britain has donated a lot of kit, but it's one off Daily Mail photo opp. stuff. It's offloading equipment they no longer have to maintain but they're not increasing their orders for replacement stocks.

    The rest of Europe is tooling up quietly but in a serious way. Bulgaria has an established munitions industry and they are now opening up production lines for Ukraine.

    Britain's material input will diminish but their intelligence contribution is worth a lot more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Yesterday I heard an academic who I had never heard of before, Stephen Kotkin speaking on the Ezra Klein podcast. I found him very insightful. One of those people who's talking about things that I've already heard seen and read about a bunch of times and yet he's able to impart new wisdom about them. I'd recommend giving it a listen:





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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭denismc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭yagan


    Just google "Putin/Bush, Crawford Ranch" and you'll be getting a hell of a back story about how they championed Putin as an ally in their war on Terror.

    Putin no doubt saw the Iraq invasion as justification to invade anywhere and anytime he wanted without fear of the US.



  • Site Banned Posts: 899 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    In total, about 3,000 Hurricanes were sent to the USSR between 1941 and 1944 to support the Soviet war effort. Most were either destroyed in combat or dismantled later for parts.

    But some Hurricanes were deliberately broken up and buried after the war so the Soviets did not have to pay back the United States. Under the Lend-Lease legislation, the USSR was required to pay for any donated military equipment that remained intact after hostilities ended.

    Ungrateful bastards. Man I wish the allies just let them get steam rolled by Germany.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭Ramasun




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,530 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Is he saying for the West to continue supplies at the rate needed they would need to move their economies to a war footing? This is what Putin had been gambling on all along. If the west had gone all in this warning would not have needed to be sounded at all. In any case I think he is wrong, I still believe Ukraine will achieve a sudden breakthrough at some stage and the Russian resistance will collapse. If they had air supremacy the breach would happen far sooner. As a poster said a few days ago look what happened at Normandy, in the earlier stages progress was glacial then suddenly there was rapid advancements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    The invasion of Iraq was a monumental geo-political own goal with ripples to this day on how the USA is seen in this world. I sometimes wonder what percentage of tankies would be of a different persuasion had that reckless invasion not happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭Asdfgh2020


    What relevance has this fact to anything that is happening today….it’s hardly like the Ukraine or Russians can ‘fire them up’ and use them..🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭yagan


    I think it actually revealed the US's post cold war attitude to the world in that it never believed in an international order and they started losing interest in Iraq once the Mission Accomplished banner was unfurled on that aircraft carrier.

    Iraq wasn't reckless or an own goal if the intention was to reestablish its sense of being able to go where it liked when it liked. Bush Jr gave tacit approval to Putin to do the same in Russia's backyard. The response to Crimea should have happened when Russia bombed Georgia in 08, but the US was still keeping Putin on side as a regional ally.

    Post edited by yagan on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    You don't even have to go as far as India......even the Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher admitted that Churchill made a major blunder when he partitioned Ireland.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 899 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    The thread isn't exclusively about the Ukraine war ya know



This discussion has been closed.
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