Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Could be the generals got together and decided to hang together instead of hanging one by one?

the generals might decide they are safer without prigozhin or putin if uncertainty continues much longer

@jmreire what are you doing hanging out over there with the right wing nationalists and the fascists? I didn't think you were that way aligned.

Just being in Belgrade doesn't make you a fascist fellow traveller! It's actually a pretty interesting place.

I wonder was Putin acting in good faith with this deal

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4063124-rfj-jr-says-russia-acting-in-good-faith-in-ukraine-invasion-us-in-part-to-blame-for-war/amp/

It must be the most dysfunctional country and society in Europe by some considerable distance. Even Belarus is relatively normal in comparison.

You wonder?

Or you’re trying to take us for eejits and think we might fall for your “questions” whether Putin was acting in good faith.

Spare us.

Sorry!

I see two ways this can go

1. Putin fires Shoygu and Gerasimov. It means that the faction behind Prigozhin has won and they will force Putin out, probably through a successor that Putin will transfer the power to.

2. Putin tries to disarm the Wagner group. They will resist and this time they will not stop until they reach Moscow. Regardless of whether Prigozhin is alive/free or not. The military head of the group is a nutcase called Dmitry Utkin, aka Wagner. He can lead the rebellion with or without Prigo.

Think if the mafia ran a country. 7 or 8 "bosses" are part of the inner circle, Putin is their decision-maker.

They run everything and take a cut of everything, from business to oil to the media. On the plus side for them, everything is corrupt, on the negative side, everything is corrupt. Step out of line? Get thrown out of a window.

They pissed off one of the bosses, the one with a private army of 25,000. He decided to shake them up. The snakes ran and had to cut a deal with him. They'll probably "take care" of him later, but for now they need to shore up and make sure something like that never happens again.

Josip, I've spent many years working in war torn country's, more than I care to remember, all over the world. And what I think about them is they have all without exception two things in common. One, corruption has been the root cause of each and everyone of them. Two, don't make the mistake of tarnishing each and ever one of the people who live in these Country's as being the same as the monsters who commit atrocities. Because they're not.

After the news, there was a program discussing the days events. And plenty of laughing and sniggering on that. No, their news readers are professional, but were definitely smiling, whether that was normal or due to the content, I don't know. Have to watch it again tomorrow night.

The West may not have to have been involved to have picked up advance notice of it though.

Whatever happened on Saturday; whatever deal was struck, Putin is in a weakened state at best. For the first time in this conflict the failed reasons for the invasion and so the cause of the war was laid squarely with Putin.

A genuine rival for control of Russia appeared, someone who was cheered by Russian people, his army happily accepted to replace the Russians in Rostov, nothing like this has happened on Putin's watch before. Putin was made to look weak and ineffective inside Russia, roadblocks in Moscow?? This is completely new territory.

The only person that has a positive tale to tell in the Ukraine conflict, one that has laid the trail for withdrawal from Ukraine by his statements that the reasons for the conflict were wrong, were lies, and is sitting waiting in the wings, smiling.

Apparently when the uprising was ongoing, there was very few denouncing Prig's actions, that really says people in power didn't know how this was going to shake out, they were waiting to see before committing.

Putin has always stayed above squabbles between his underlings, leaves them fight among themselves all the while stabbing each other to get the big bosses attention, now he has been directly challenged. Things are definitely changing.

Read the thread. I said the Americans knew before any other Western power that the Russians would invade,

I was answering Nacho Libra’s suggestion the Americans have a source close to the top of the Russian MoD. If they did, they would have tipped off the Ukrainians and the Russians would never have got to the Presidential Palace or taken Hostomel Airport. (The lines of tanks on the road to Kyiv happened because the Russians lost the airport.)