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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pcardin


    you forgot to add whataboutism. It is a mandatory piece. And also a 'yawn' word they like to add at the end of their 'very valuable response' when u point out something obvious back to them. 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭rogber


    You really think America couldn't give Ukraine better and more devastating weapons if they wanted to, that would crush the Russians?

    Of course they could - the Ukrainians keep asking for them. Why they choose not to is another matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭rogber


    I think you overstate the case, but agree that the US is of course acting primarily in its own long term interests. As the Russian regime is a terrorist regime or at best a pest to all its neighbours I'm happy to see it weakened and hopefully destroyed, but sorry to see Ukraine suffering more than necessary in the process



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Congress, the dominant Party in most of post Independent India saw it self as Socialistic, and for many in it pure Socialist all the way to Communist.


    India tried to straddle all horses in the cold war and kept a strong trade and political relationship with Russia going.


    There is a strong undercurrent of solidarity with Russia still there, very strong given the surge in imports to India.


    They are not unique in that, most of the world outside of Europe, North America and a few more are non plussed to rooting for Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 265 ✭✭strathspey


    I'm not seeing the problem of watching russia bleed itself dry and then going in to dismember it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Addmagnet


    How long did the British people, from Joe Public to military brass and senior politicians, think World War II would last?

    And was it World War I or II (or both!) when everyone was saying it'd 'be all over by Christmas'?

    War only lasts 2 hours in movies, or you can stretch it out, Band of Brothers style, to 10 hours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭rogber


    You're making false comparisons. This isn't a World War and Russia is not Nazi Germany.

    To ask the question again: do you think America has much stronger and better weapons than what it's supplying Ukraine with? If not, why do you think Ukraine keeps asking for more and better stuff?

    Don't get me wrong: I think the US has been a great support to Ukraine. All I'm saying is it has the ability to do much more if it wanted to. This is hardly a secret



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,048 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    And did all that happen in the press conference???

    Nope. I challenged you specifically with reference to the "long hail" comment - your response doesn't even reference the statement from the press conference.

    That you have to resort to this shows there was nothing in the press conference to justify your remark.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pcardin


    Poor guys. they will be in for a surprise once they learn what kind of monster they are cheering up to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    They don't necessarily have to reach the coast. Anything from 20km from the coast should be good enough, as then all their road and rail supplies East-West come under artillery fire.

    If they can, and it's a big if, knock the Kerch Bridge out of action for a long period of time, it might be game over for anything West of the Ukrainians.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭WheelieKing


    I don't want to see Russia "destroyed". Anyone wanting such a thing in a country with a nuclear arsenal isn't thinking logically. I'd like to see Putin and his cronies removed and put on trial in the Hague and Ukraine's borders returned but the Russian people in general i want to see prosper and be free from the mafia state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    The one thing they have in common with Russia is a pretty virulent form of nationalism (that frequently manifests as xenophobia).

    Plus a political class that finds it expedient to whip up anti-Western sentiment occasionally, even though their economy is wholly integrated into the western world's - to their great benefit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Best news of the day.

    I am sure behind-the-scenes work is being carried out on those F-16s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,322 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    This is ultimately the reason why Putin started this war.


    Poland and other Eastern Bloc states have done very well out of the EU and their living standards and wealth have increased incredibly over the last 20 years. In another 10-20 years, these Eastern bloc states will be on par with the older Western EU states in terms of living standards, wages, wealth and so on.

    Ukraine looked and this and went, "Why cant we get a part of this pie?"

    Well, Putin and Russia are the answer to that. You cannot let countries like Ukraine and Belarus into the Western fold and get rich, democratic, liberal and wealthy.

    Why?

    Because every day Russian may then ask uncomfortable questions about their own country when they see Ukraine and Belarus doing well.

    The average Russian 'should' have one of the best living standards of anyone in the world. The country is massive, has unreal natural resources, they are a clever, intelligent bunch in many areas, so why do so many live in poverty?

    There is something uniquely Russian that holds them back imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    They might ask another, even more awkward, question:

    "where did the money go and who has it?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,440 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Part of me still wonders if NATO have been cheeky feckers here and had actaully started all of this secretly the guts of a year ago. Maybe even have some fully trained Ukrainian F16 pilots, and their F16s suddenly start to appear in Ukriane in a couple of weeks, all while the Russians are led to believe that nothing had started yet.

    I base all of that on little more than a gut feeling, but would be a rather nice surprise (or horrific shock if you're Russian) to see F16s as part of this offensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yes, we kinda gathered that from your various postings over the full course of this thread.

    Question that has been raised though, is Russian society capable of change or condemned to support autocracy and the strong man mentality forever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    The start of the Robotyne push has been a little disappointing for sure but I'm starting to see whispers that they've made progress into Novopokrovka (Northweast of Robotyne).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    You couldn't rule it out. Like when James Cleverly announced that the UK had finally decided to supply Storm Shadows. Less than 24 hours later, while everyone was wondering how long it would take to train, modify aircraft etc, the Ukrainians were already hitting Russian targets with Storm Shadows. Clearly the decision had been made many months before the announcement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pcardin




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    Sky News reports that the west is giving short range anti aircraft missiles. No doubt this is to counter the Russian helicopters. Better late than never...

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Any idea what kind of missiles? They have shoulder launched and vehicle mounted starstreak and stingers already.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭rogber


    Fair enough. I'd also like to see the current Russian regime and its enablers destroyed and brought to justice and a more enlightened Russia emerge, as happened with Germany and Japan post WW2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭rogber


    All I said is that America's long haul claim shows they are not likely i.e. not willing to give Ukraine what it needs to deliver a killer blow in the near term. you dodging my question shows you have no valid counter argument and so presumably agree. They're hardly going to state the real reasons in a press conference. It's still a revealing remark



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    This war has been going on since 2014, when russian proxies were in a "civil war" in Ukraine.

    It can go on a lot longer still, until US/NATO give Ukraine enough to end it - they are still dragging their feet and giving the bare minimum of arms to Ukraine.

    It wont end this summer with the Crimea beach party, and I'd be surprised if it ended by christmas 23 either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Neither the media report


    Nor the official joint statement by Denmark, the Netherlands, the UK and the USA give specific details


    The Denmark, the Netherlands, and the UK defence ministries and the United States Department of Defense today announced that they are partnering together to deliver high priority air defence equipment to Ukraine, addressing its most urgent air defence requirements as Russia continues its brazen missile and drone attacks against Ukrainian cities.

    The initiative will deliver hundreds of short and medium range air defence missiles and associated systems required to protect Ukraine’s critical national infrastructure and further ensure the success of counter-offensive operations in coming months. Delivery of the equipment has already begun and should be complete within several weeks.

    The initiative was announced ahead of the June 15, 2023 meeting of the U.S.-led Ukraine Defense Contact Group (UDCG) in Brussels, Belgium. The UDCG brings together some 50 nations providing a variety of military support to Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,181 ✭✭✭Field east


    Would the absolute same go for any other announcement from any country supplying arms/equipment to UKr. Does it not make perfect sense if only for the element of surprise. Such countries could also say that they will supply B52 bombers- only to be used within the Ukr - but never supply them. Done just to put the ‘shirt ‘ up the Russians. Sure is not Putin already doing it with his nuclear arms - we don’t know how many he has , where they are and would they even fire , how well are they maintained. He was all Shock and Awe at the start of the Special Mission Operation . He threatened any county that was even thinking about helping Ukr



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    They just said hundreds of short range anti aircraft missiles.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,048 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It reveals nothing - "they're hardly going to state the real reasons in a press conference". So there you go.

    Just that you viewed the press conference through the prism of an already held opinion.

    You were unable to support your claims with direct reference to the press conference. Which proves my point. I didn't dodge your question, I was sticking to the main point.

    And besides, if they were about to give some new weapons -> they'd hardly give any hints of that in a press conference. Catch 22.

    As for your question, you have expressed a wish to Russia to be 'destroyed' and rebuilt like Japan and Germany after WWII. Your posts seem to ignore the geopolitical reality that Russia is nuclear and WMD armed and if it thinks it is danger of suffering a 'killer blow' from Ukraine or NATO may resort to their use.

    On top of that, I can imagine a whole host of reasons why certain weapons are held back -> fears of advanced systems falling into Russian hands, shortage of equipment, need to keep reserve for other threats, complexity of training, logistics, supply.

    I don't think it reflects some conspiracy / agenda to deliberately draw out the war. If I'm to be convinced of that, need a lot more.

    So I will take the comments at face value.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭rogber


    I think there are two possibilities why they hold back certain weapons: first, out of fear of provoking a nuclear state (which you acknowledge), and second because Russia bogged down in a long war may be better than Russia swiftly defeated and regrouping for the next attack.

    I suspect both factors play their role.

    You disagree on the second point - fine. History may one day clear up the debate. For now we know only that the US could offer much more military help than it chooses to.



This discussion has been closed.
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