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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Like the rumor he was taken out by a Russian missile?

    He'd be starting the counteroffensive in winter if you believe the rumors, if not spring/summer 2024 (depending on training/delivery)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    well if you can believe anything the Russians say or said about their capabilities regarding anything from washing machines to ICBM’s then yes, they have superior aircraft to the mig29.

    they have SU family nowadays which would be superior to the mig29

    wether they have anybody to fly them is a different matter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    The Ukrainians won't receive their first F16s until September.

    It also takes 4 months for a Ukrainian pilot to be trained up on one for them to be useful using one for combat missions.

    If those rumours about Zalushnyi were true then the Ukrainians wouldn't be able to launch their counter-attack until after the summer if he got his way.

    I don't think that adds up.

    Also the idea that a general doesn't agree with orders and so flounces off like a sulky teenager just seems to be unlikely as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭zv2


    Well I hope it is just a rumor but I'm trying to understand why Ukraine has been left so vulnerable to these Russian gunships. The west has had at least 6 months to prepare for this. Surely they knew Ukr. needs air defense against these helicopters. Americans know how to do the helicopter thing, right?

    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭strathspey


    Oh, I love vids like these, watching orcs getting obliterated!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,135 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    The counter offensive without proper air support was always gonna be a tall order.


    Zelensky begged for fighter jets etc for months.


    Maybe the pressure to produce something on the field after the support was too much and he decided they had to go for it regardless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭zv2


    Rhetorical question - how long would it take to train Ukrainians on Apache helicopters with the sole purpose of taking out Russian helicopters? Forget all the fancy stuff, just repurpose them for helicopter combat only. Should not take long.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭zv2


    They should have all been trained up by now. The west is thinking in slow motion.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    No mention of them getting any F16s from anywhere let alone getting them in September,by all accounts they are training the future Ukrainian airforce,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Not nice try ,

    Alex and anyone else claiming photoshopped,CGI to Ai are clearly wrong we have seen the photos and several videos now and yet but it's fake according to Alex on Twitter and one or two on here,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭wassie


    Are the Aussie FA18s a realistic proposition though? My understanding there was concerns about the capability to train and maintain a fleet of mixed aircraft.

    I am no expert on these aircraft, but AFAIK one advantage the FA18s have is a combat radius of 400-500miles, whilst the FA16 is probably more like 300 miles. Appreciate there are a lot of pros & cons on each, depending upon the configuration, payload and role.

    One thing that has been noted is that because the Aussie FA18s have been used primarily on land, the frames are in very good condition, as opposed to the US Navy counterparts that suffer heavy stress associated with repeated aircraft landings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    This vulnerability is based on... What? A single video of an attack helicopter taking out a single tank? Seeing as how Ukraine have destroyed 35 KA-52's, Ukraine obviously know how to take them out.

    The west don't have short range mobile AA comparable to Pantsir.

    I can't believe people are still talking about a tiny failed offensiv/probing nearly a week later. As bad as the Russians releasing new photos and videos of different angles of the same battle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,443 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Slow news the last Day. Have they paused the attacks due to rain?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭zv2


    The numbers of destroyed Russian equipment has returned to normal. The offensive may be paused for a while?

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The image posted by Francie was genuine. It's been geolocated. It comes from video footage. It actually contains some wreckage we have seen before (in other verified images) just from another angle... and also some new or previously unseen wreckage.

    Perhaps it looks fake to the untrained eye because most people simply don't understand image/video compression. These things get posted to one site, then they get ripped and uploaded to another site and go through a whole new iteration of compression. Repeatedly. Each generation adds more artifacts. Plus sharpening, watermark removal etc. Sometimes several frames get stitched into a panorama. They are full of compression and editing artifacts which makes them look fake to those with limited technical knowledge.

    I wouldn't expect those who declared it definitely fake to admit their mistake because this is the internet, nobody does that. But I hope they re-evaluate their level of competence, don't be so sure of themselves in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The biggest problem is always going to the training of pilots and the training of maintenance crews and logistics ,its never going to be as simple as giving them a few jets and they all suddenly find their inner maverick,

    It's going to be at least 18 months before anything solid is put into place, even with the RAF leading the flight training who have there own problems with RAF pilots waiting over 12 months to complete their own flight training due to various delays and bottlenecks in the UK



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They have mainly used manpads to take out the various Russian helicopters,the same helicopters are now flying lower and shooting missles from well outside manpad range ,now the Ukrainan are prone to being hit with anti tank weapons from 10 + kilometers away from the nearest Ukrainian with a manpad ,4 + Anti tank missles per helicopter could do a lot of damage to an armoured convoys



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Russians still need LOS with their missiles (afaik) which look to be the same range as stingers, 8km vs 8km. Again it seems it's a single video of a single helicopter taking out a single tank and the sky has fallen in.

    That armor column didn't appear to have any AA at all, plenty of armchair generals and more experienced people have found fault with the tactics Ukraine used in that situation. That doesn't mean every single probing attack or the main counteroffensive will use the same tactics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭AerLingus747


    expression of interest has gone to Finland to acquire some of their F-18's, what comes of it, who knows... but if direct acquisition isn't possible, if the Aussie F-18's were to be on the cards, I'm sure the Fin's would be involved with training and support at some level...

    Swiss and Spanish operate F-18's with support contracts from the US. The Swiss won't help c0z ThEy'Re NeUtRaL, but Spanish are a possibility, however, they have been ramping down F-18 ops.

    F-16 support would almost certain be a mix between Dutch and Danish AF direct support and Sabena Technics in Belgium who had the USAF F-16 support contract for Europe until recently



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,060 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Surely the US could assist with maintenance depots in Poland for the Jets. Could train Ukrainians while servicing the airframes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Look who's getting uppety! We look forward to your definitive take on the progress of this war.

    Meanwhile the rest of us will suspend judgement on posted still images and videos, as we see fit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    I'm happy to admit I got it wrong having seen the video. There's always going to be a bias, especially if emotionally invested in one side and if one goes looking for issues with an image they can certainly find them, which I did. But yes it appears more legit now.

    We've seen this thread de-railed enough times by some not big enough to swallow their pride, when shown to be incorrect, as posters clamber for a climbdown that never comes. The petty insults then ensue. But I start from the same perspective as you; I don't expect people to admit when they're wrong either. The fact that they don't just shreds their credibility IMO so much so that I no longer give the same regard to what they post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    I agree. Plus, the F-16 performed very well during the Baltics conflicts. While both types can be refuelled air- to-air, this option won't be available to Ukraine as they have neither the tankers nor the training to do so. You also need to think of the ground- support and maintenance training for any Western type. Russian aircraft are designed to be operated from rugged airfields with less than ideal support structures. Western aircraft definitely are not! ( which is why, for example, the engine intakes of a Mig-29 close off for take off to stop foreign object ingestion into the engines. It uses auxiliary intakes on the top of the cowlings for takeoff. It's not usual to see lines of ground crew walking down the runways of Western airfields looking for any objects on the surface that may cause issues with engines. This is a very rare occurrence in Russia. Ukranian ground crew would need extensive training to deal with the very,very sensitive systems of Western aircraft. While they have the usual redundancies of most aircraft, they would not be able to take the punishment, nor have the simplified systems of Russian aircraft.

    For example, I took an aerobatics course years ago ( when I was flying) in a Yak-52. A Soviet-era training aircraft. While most other aircraft had hydraulic systems for braking and undercarriage, the Yak used compressed air for flaps, undercarriage,braking and engine starting ( a 9 cylinder rotary engine). This enabled it to be operated in the harshest of cold weather, unlike the Western electrical and hydraulic systems. The undercarriage retracts only partially, to enable control during an engine-out landing.

    However, as safe as it was, I was always troubled by the need to wear a parachute for each flight!

    These aircraft are built without finesse and were often operated without finesse. Some of the Mi- family of helicopters operated by Ukraine are over 50 years old! If you look at the fixed undercarriage of an Mil-17, it's made from one single block of unfinished titanium. Purely functional without the over-engineerung of Western types. ( Russia is not short of titanium)

    While transitioning pilots from East to West may not be too bad, transitioning engineers and groundcrew is a whole other thing altogether.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    18 months seems to be on the very conservative side.

    It will more likely be 6-12 months. Certainly too late to be of use this year, but from 2024 on should be operational to some extent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    When it comes to armoured assaults there's not a lot of tactics available if you don't have air superiority, artillery cover and infantry support,

    Without any of the above your left traversing open ground trying to get an objective while getting targeted by helicopters, drones and artillery ,

    The options are limited



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    On the whole aircraft situation over the next week started yesterday Nato are carrying out a Large scale Air excercise (Air Defender) over Germany with 250 + aircraft and 10,000 personnel from the US and other Nato members taking part



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Bradleys and Leopards being destroyed is not the end of the world - these vehicles are designed to take heavy hits, because of the usecase many will inevitably be destroyed. Thats just the price that will be paid for territory.

    15% of bradleys is a lot, but US have recently committed to replace all those destroyed. Also, none of the strykers, marders or challengers have even been seen in the field yet so there is plenty more vehicles in reserve yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭enricoh


    I'd be giving the kids the codes for the Swiss bank accounts also.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Finland aren't going to give any F-18's to Ukraine, that was just a comment by the outgoing prime minster who said it should be discussed when replacement F-35's arrive. Should Ukraine get F-18's from someone else, then I'm sure Finland would help with training and logistics, but the actual planes will have to come from somewhere else.



This discussion has been closed.
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