Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I remember the Kursk and the two sieges (the Moscow theatre and the school in Beslan) but it only really registered in a "Wow those Russians really mess up but they are tough - don't mess with them" sort of way. The moment when the penny dropped with me about what Putin really was was when I read about the murder of Anna Politkovskaya in 2006. Such an obvious assassination of a critical journalist was not something that could be dismissed as incompetence or bad fortune. No, this showed both that Putin was vicious and also brazen. The poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko followed soon afterwards which just solidified that opinion. Nothing has been too much of a shock since then. He would do anything just so long as it means that he does not lose power and the main tools in his arsenal are fear, intimidation and lies. A classic bully and a sociopath. I don't like to throw the word evil around as it seems almost cartoonish and simplistic but that's exactly what he is.

Said person is a well established and trusted mapper of the conflict.

Most war mappers in ukraine started with mapping conflicts in the middle east, even liveuamap has sections for Syria and Iraq.

Dont let that get in the way of your xenophobia though

How is it Obama's fault? It's not Americans role to police the world. Ditto the EU. It is entirely on Putin.

It wasn’t a big news item for much of the last 23 years. It was all about Islamic terrorism post 9/11. Putin was actively ignored or in some ways even painted as a kind of ally in the war against terror. He was the head of a structured civilised country absolutely not one of them barbaric Islamic terrorists.

In todays world of instant communication and instant videos Putins army may as well be the SS and Wehrmacht. It is incredibly out of tune for a supposed modern civilised country to be carrying out such medieval acts of brutalism in the full glare of the world attention and media in the 21st century. It’s absolutely horrific. Some of the stuff that has been captured on video and photos has been absolutely barbaric and disgraces the reputation of Russia as any sort of a normal country. At least Hitler and the Nazis thought they were doing it out of sight. Russia has no such excuse. Things are a lot more visible in todays world and they know it and they don’t care.

And yet Lional, it has been said on several occasions that certain areas have to be completely de-nazified, every last one eliminated. Man woman and a child. Check out TheKremlinYap, and see for yourself just what they want to do. As for the brutal imperialist and conquest yes they are that, and for the Russian Army that means ruthless death and destruction, without any regards for the laws of God or Man. I spent quite some time in Syria, Afghanistan and Chechnya. So believe me Lional, I know very well what Putins murderous army can do. If you ever have to go to a village or town after Putin mob's have been there, I guarantee you will not forget it in a hurry. Inhuman best describes it.

To be correct the Korean war hasn't actually ended it's in a long pause and that won't change for as long as china decides

Here is the thing they might be wishful thinking but they are actually fair. Whereas the clowns are actually discussing NOTHING. They are crying about peace but saying nothing about what peace would look like. The above is actually a reasonable position for Ukraine to take. Let Mick Wallace, Claire Daly and their idiot followers argue what is unreasonable about the above.

They want to debate, then let them get off their **** soapboxes and debate.

Yeah, although unfortunately there is rarely such a thing as a 'fair' outcome to a war (WW2 was largely due to the German feeling, stoked by the Nazis, that the outcome of WW1 was somehow 'unfair').

I did try to start a debate on likely outcomes to the war but it never really took off.

For me though, I think the most likely outcome is 'frozen conflict'. Which undoubtedly would be unfair by any reasonable judgement. A huge amount depends on this coming Ukrainian counter-offensive; what ground can they take, and hold? Hard to see them taking either the entirety of the Crimea or a huge city like Donetsk.

Again, we should hope for the best and fairest outcome but reality rarely matches up to that.

Putin has created thousands of evil humanoids to kill anyone who questions his authority.

The soldiers on the front are scared sure deservedly.

But the real evils IMHO are the ones thousands of miles away arming and firing missiles at innocent civilian targets and supposedly living in similar, hell even having relatives there.

For Russia, Hospitals are one of their primary target's because it prevents injured soldiers being treated and their lives saved. It also helps to demoralizes the Citizens, which is also part of the plan.

So you actually want to engage in whataboutism and not debate. Nice to hear you admit that although I already knew it.

So lets get back to debate. You describe those terms as draconian. Why? Almost all of those points would be to the benefit of the Russian people. Do you agree or not? If not please point out why they would not.

Sure he was. It was a time of East -West raproachment and co -operation. The communist bogyman was receding into the past, and the future looked brighter than it had in years. So Yes, Putin was feted and proclaimed as a welcome addition to the capitalistic world. And they were prepared to give him a chance. They were the right steps to take back then.

Lets not debate. Let them release few more true colors and mods will move them to recycle bin quickly enough.