I got dismissed today, what do you think?

i124Q · 24-05-2023 11:06pm #1

Working in Tech Support for American company for 2 years on the dot today.

I was on holidays, came back today to log in and saw an invite for a meeting just 30 minutes into my shift, at 8:30.

I joined the meeting and my manager was there along with a HR lady. As soon as I joined, Manager told me I am being let go due to a business decision and not due to any other reason. He then left the meeting, and the HR lady was left there explaining things. I blanked out in shock and did not register it until the call dropped at 8.35. Within 5 minutes all my access was blocked.

I was doing well in the job so I know I don't deserve it. They sent me a compromise agreement to personal email where if I sign it, I get 4 months pay as a 'redundancy' but it's not really redundancy. I also get paid my remaining holidays and rest of this month and June. They also offered 350 to go towards solicitor fees.

I'm waiting to get in touch with a family friend for legal advice.

Worth fighting it, or do I take the money? Might not be worth fighting it, but obviously I'm pissed because it came from nowhere.

This all happened on my 2 year anniversary today.

I also know there are people on the team that are newer than me. And my manager never gave me a heads up. Not cool.

delusiondestroyer · 24-05-2023 11:10pm

Were you permanent or on contract? did you have your probation done? If you were permanent and not on probation you have a case, cant just fire someone willynilly but if you were contract or on probation they can give you the boot without reason anytime they like.

Were you difficult to work with? Or not a team player? lots of reasons to be let go other than being bad at your job.

Mongfinder General · 24-05-2023 11:15pm

Dreadful. Not nice at all. But it’s the culture in some organisations. They haven’t given you any real notice which is not legal. However, under some circumstances, an employer may offer pay in lieu of a notice period. If your employer offers you pay and you choose to accept it, you aren't required to work for the period between receiving the notice and the end of your employment.

Personally - I’d take the deal with the condition that you receive a written reference

fritzelly · 24-05-2023 11:19pm

TBH after only 2 years that's a nice severance package, take it and move on to somewhere better - if they are downsizing i.e. getting rid of the job then you are getting far more than statutory

thomas 123 · 24-05-2023 11:24pm

Go to your solicitor, ask for their advice.

Probably able to get a bit more cash out of them. Sign nothing until you talk to your solicitor.

The US companies have this worked out down to the cent and they have a figure already for you if you are willing to ask for more.

Going to the WRC will cost more than its worth and you likely wont be able to afford to wait long enough for the case to be resolved anyway - the companies know this.

Irish employment law means f all to them.

24-05-2023 11:29pm

Is t that called “gardening leave” pay, like they did with Twitter employees? Get the reference, take the package, use the “leave” to job-seek. I hear it being said there are plenty of IT jobs out there in spite of the big job cuts we’re hearing about in the industry, not that I’m entirely sure this is on balance true. Seems some such jobs may be lost to AI.

Xander10 · 24-05-2023 11:33pm

The strangest bit is the 350 towards solicitor's fees.

Can you ask them to put in writing why they selected you as part of this business decision?

Snugbugrug28 · 24-05-2023 11:35pm

Surely you were still on probation?

Akrasia · 24-05-2023 11:36pm

Legally, they're probably breaking all kinds of laws, but practically, unless you have a union, you're probably best to take then money, and the reference, and move on.

Don't take it as a personal slight. Learn from it. Corporations are not loyal to you. Do your job to your ability, but always be looking to move on the same way they're looking to replace you with something cheaper

alias no.9 · 24-05-2023 11:43pm

Let's write off May as almost over, paid until end of June, that's paid notice. Paid any outstanding holidays is a requirement AFAIK but think they could deduct from paid notice, so a little bonus.

4 months pay is 8 weeks per year which would be generous as a redundancy but typically the weeks are quoted as X weeks actual + 2 weeks statutory, statutory capped at €650 per week, so probably closer to 6+2, still generous, but you do need 2 full years of service for statutory redundancy.

If you're a day under 2 years, take the money and run provided you get both a written reference and confirmation that they will provide phone confirmation, be cheeky and ask for the €350 solicitors fees in cash. If you're there more than 2 years, use the €350 for a solicitor specalising in employment law.

Mundo7976 · 25-05-2023 6:55am

If you accept the deal it will have to be notarised by a solicitor & the €350 will be paid directly to the solicitor

finnyob · 25-05-2023 7:28am

You have a good deal there, but you can try push harder for more, ask around and see if it stacks up to what other may have been offered.

Do get the reference as others have suggested and see if you can swing some paid interview skills training provided by an external company. Well worth doing it.

Otherwise, enjoy the summer but don't splurge that cash. Start applying for new jobs now. You are out one way or the other and it sounds like they are operating within their rights. Redundancies happen all the time in tech, I've been there twice in my 20 years and never any regrets.

Good luck OP

Count Dracula · 25-05-2023 7:34am

That is a great deal, take it and get a new job.

If they fired you last week they technically owed you nothing and could have made any severance difficult for you.

DownByTheGarden · 25-05-2023 7:42am

Make sure they dont take back their portion of your pension payments too if you have been there less than 2 years.

cuttingtimber22 · 25-05-2023 7:44am

Good advice given. Get the reference, take the money and move on.

If you want more job security then look to public sector who pay less but there can be great opportunities for advancement and further education. There are open posts on publicjobs.ie

Count Dracula · 25-05-2023 7:53am

I can remember the last IT crash in the late 90's. Lots of employees left working for insolvent startups, with no idea what was going on for weeks. They ended up bringing their PC's home as there was no money left, at all.

Caranica · 25-05-2023 8:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637494#Comment_120637494

New laws came in last year that you can't be on probation for more than 6 months. Backdated afaik

the_amazing_raisin · 25-05-2023 8:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637490#Comment_120637490

I was in this position before and as part of the redundancy package we had to get an independent financial adviser to go through the package with us and ensure we understood what we were getting. Perhaps this is what the OP meant

ELM327 · 25-05-2023 8:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637924#Comment_120637924

Same here. Was laid off earlier this year from an MNC (now working for another MNC!) and as part of getting any severance agreement beyond legally entitled statutory redundancy, we had to sign an agreement only after speaking to a solicitor which the company funded up to 500 euro. Its so you cant come back and say you didnt know what you were signing. Theres usually a couple of terms in there which you should be aware of - speaking generally and not specifically about my own one - you could have clauses like NDA, non compete, must be available if the company is audited and your work is questioned, no further litigation, no discrimination etc

skallywag · 25-05-2023 8:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637494#Comment_120637494

2 years would be a pretty long probation period?

OP, if your chances of finding a new gig are strong, then I would take the offer immediately.

the_amazing_raisin · 25-05-2023 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297829/i-got-dismissed-today-what-do-you-think

Years ago I was part of a group of people selected for "voluntary" redundancy by my employer, again a US based tech giant

It was a pretty horrible experience, and like you said there was no real warning, although in retrospect we did see some alarm bells with projects getting cancelled

The worst part for us was that a bunch of people who wanted to stay got cut in the end, and a bunch of people who wanted out got their job saved and their nice redundancy payout cancelled. I was in group 2 and ended up quitting a month later anyway

My honest advice is this, take the money and bounce, get your CV done today and start firing in job applications. Tell any prospective employers you'll be available to start in July and see how it goes. If possible I'd recommend taking a couple of weeks to decompress after leaving your current role

As others have said you could argue for a better package, one option might be to ask for a retraining allowance so you could perhaps upskill to a higher job level?

I wouldn't bother trying to argue for keeping your job. These companies will skirt on the edge of legality to get rid of you and if you manage to somehow keep your job then they'll just make your life hell until you get fed up and leave. Better to get paid on the way out IMO

And whatever happens, try to put this experience behind you. I was very bitter about the whole redundancy process and how I was treated and would complain about it for years afterwards. It's only in the past couple of years that I realised that I should have just let it go and moved on. It's only a job after all, not worth shedding any tears over

Tow · 25-05-2023 8:55am

@ 2 Years: OP you need to look at the pension scheme rules. They maybe trying to get rid of you while they can claw back contributions.

Cuddlesworth · 25-05-2023 9:07am

The bare legal minimum they are required to give you is

2 weeks notice(can be paid instead)

2 weeks per year plus 1 week. So 5 weeks total, capped at 600 per week. Eg, 3000 Euros total.

The package offered, if I'm reading this right, is 20 weeks total pay and you are effectively already terminated.

60k salary would be a payout of roughly 23k. You can take 24,600 off tax free from the payout using basic + extended + statutory allowances.

Suing is pointless, again they are only required to give you notice, pay the minimum and not hire that position again in Ireland for 6 months. Multinationals have this down to a tee, they do it every x number of years in most places.

KildareP · 25-05-2023 9:39am

Suing will achieve nothing in my mind:

Do you want the job back? It doesn't sound in any way secure or certain and chances are you'll be cut again down the road. Redundancy terms are unlikely to be anywhere near as good next time around.
Are you looking for more money? You could push for it, but if you threaten to sue then they might insist on going by the book which is 2 weeks pay for every year vs the minimum 8 weeks they're offering. And that's if you've worked a minimum of 2 years (are you sure you have? The timing sounds very suspect) because if you haven't, you get nothing bar your statutory notice.
Are you trying to one-up or get one over them? I can honestly tell you, whoever made this decision doesn't care. They won't lose any sleep or time giving it a second thought. They most certainly won't be made feel foolish or silly. If anything - they're willing to pay you a third of your annual salary to do absolutely nothing, that's a pretty awful deal from a pure business perspective.
A litigious-oriented history tends to follow people, you might get more now but it may well cost you more in lost future earnings. Companies tend not to want litigious-minded individuals working for them even if they might have been successful in court. It could reduce your employability or ability to move up the ranks.

Personally, I'd take the money. You have 4-months at your leisure without being down a single cent in income. Spend a month doing nothing but decompress, you're bound to be seriously pissed off right now and that's a perfectly normal response. Cool off and clear your head. Then spend the rest of your 3-months doing a mix of relaxed, focused job hunting along with some upskilling through courses or certifications. If you get a job within 4 months, you're up money. If it takes you the 4 months to find the perfect job, you're still not down money and will hopefully have had time to relax and enjoy life a bit.

3DataModem · 25-05-2023 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297829/i-got-dismissed-today-what-do-you-think

Take the money. Been there.

i124Q · 25-05-2023 4:46pm

Thank you for all the constructive feedback! Some really solid advice in there! And such great positivity shared. This is why I love Boards!

To those who mentioned probation period - Why would I still be on probation 2 years into the job...

To those who said take the money, I probably will. It's free money and a good chunk!

To those wondering do I want my job back... HELL NO... After the way I have been treated in the last day. My manager has not even messaged or called me to wish me well. I got FIVE 5/5 Surveys from customers just before I left for my holidays, I even have a screenshot, so I was doing really well, hence I know it wasn't due to my performance.

An ex-gratia payment is what I'm being offered. Google Says: This is a non-statutory redundancy payment paid by your employer, which is over and above the statutory redundancy payment. Payment in lieu of notice: however, if this lump sum is paid under the terms of your contract, it is taxable in full and does not qualify for exemption or relief.

So it sucks that I might have to pay full tax on the lump sum.

Anyway, I am meeting with a Solicitor tomorrow. We will go over the docs (termination agreement / compromise agreement) and make a decision then.

5 different customers - 25/25. Their loss...

Spear · 25-05-2023 4:51pm

There's a tax break for large lump sums like redundancy payments that can be used once every 10 years. Make sure that gets used if it's applicable.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/retirement/income-tax-in-retirement/retirement-lump-sum-taxation/

tayto lover · 25-05-2023 6:23pm

There's an excellent employment solicitor called Terry Gorry in Trim, Co, Meath. Get his number and ring him and he'll tell you all you need to know. He specialises in this sort of thing and is not too expensive.

Claw Hammer · 25-05-2023 9:46pm

Taking a WRC case means publicity and could be the death knell for your career in that industry. It is best to get as much as you can from your ex employer and move on.

Jim2007 · 25-05-2023 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297829/i-got-dismissed-today-what-do-you-think

It’s never a nice think to loose your job especially when you were not expecting it. But you were not dismissed you were made redundant and is a big difference - there is no job to go back to and there is no one taking over your job. As for your manager giving you a heads up etc… I very much doubt he knew and he might even be in the next round!

So given that back is not an option the question is is the package you have been offered as good as you can get for two years service? As far as I remember statutory redundancy entitlement comes after two years service… So five months salary does not seem too shabby. And if they are not obligated to make a payment it could be taken of the table…

Go spend an hour with a solicitor, it won’t cost a lot and you’ll at least know if the package is as good as it gets.

combat14 · 25-05-2023 10:24pm

take the money, let it go and move on to bigger and better things :)

I got dismissed today, what do you think?

Comments