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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I have similar thoughts. The only reason I could think of using the reservoir or the area around the dam is that Brueckner knew it well. However he must have been so smart that water levels do change in reservoirs and hiding a body there is probably not the best choice.

    The cliffs around Sagres are probably the best choice, especially at night. They even have a caravan park and incidentally also a "last Bratwurst before America" place. Any German familiar with the area would have known..... The question is only was he familiar with the currents, or the possibility of the body washing up on some shore? Maybe he tied weights to the body? We all don't know.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,448 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl



    I would be surprised that German police would be active in this if they didn't have more to go on.

    But maybe as Bruekhner's the prime suspect they have to be there ?

    Such a sad lonely place if this is her final resting place . Hope they find something at this stage.

    Post edited by Goldengirl on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It seems the first of your statements. How they've gotten that information is beyond me.

    Bruckner would hardly have bragged about the location of the crime. The police also can't turn every stone upside down in the whole of Portugal, so they must have some information on the whereabouts, and possibly what kind of links they are looking for to connect suspect to the crime and maybe also find a body. Even the land around the reservoir seems vast.

    Also the water level of the reservoir seems to be lower than usual? How low was it at the time of the crime? They seem to concentrate their search so far on land and don't seem to have any divers there as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,448 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    It may be that there has been more information from the people that tipped Correia off in 2008 .

    The rest is as much your guess as mine .



  • Posts: 24,207 ✭✭✭✭ Harmoni Faint Skirmish


    The fact that this point was never spoken of as a possibility through the years puzzles me greatly. It’s the most obvious place to start considering. I’m sure the police must have entertained this possibility and have been looking along the coastline, but too often incompetence trumps common sense.

    There is the possibility that he wanted to hide her poor body for further defilement. Without going into details it’s possible he had added an additional fetish. And maybe he photographed “momentos”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭danfrancisco83


    I hope her remains are found now. All her family can finally then get some closure. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think we all don't know an awful lot about the case.

    I've always wondered why it took them so long to consider Bueckner as a suspect? He's had a history of sexual offences and was in the area at the time of the crime.

    I am also guessing that they are acting on some kind of tip off because the search is concentrated on certain places near the reservoir. I also don't know how long DNA evidence would last in these circumstances, but even if they find a body, matching killer to crime scene to victim won't be easy.

    Just stating that Bueckner was in Portugal at the time of the crime won't be enough for a conviction beyond reasonable doubt.

    It would have been easier to do something different, like checking Bueckner's car for Maddie's DNA. But I presume that's been done many times before.



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Any may anyone who persecuted them hang their heads in shame.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,448 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Oh no , very probably but so hard to think about it .

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Depends on what. I think the McCanns were negligent, to say the least. The Tapas place was a bit away from their place where the children were, not in direct sight. That was their main mistake. It's not even that one of the parents could be seated to have a straight view to the place to see if somebody was coming and going. One should never have let the children alone and unsupervised. The least thing they could have done is hired some kind of accredited baby sitters. Some hotels do actually offer that as well.

    And legally, ( neither in Portugal nor in the UK ) I don't think the law is in the McCann's favor leaving their children alone, as tragic as the loss is.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,448 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    While I agree with you that they made a bad mistake, I think the price they have paid is way above what anybody could want for anybody ..its hell really .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    It is indeed but I was setting all sorts of emotional issues aside. It won't help the case.

    But even back then technology was around to monitor babies and infants remotely. They could have considered that as well, and would have had some kind of warning or idea what was going on and in the best case a recording. Or would have heard something, as I don't think that this was some low level and loud mouthed British drinking session.

    Also both parents were doctors, people with education. I mean, they weren't dumb, in my simple language and understanding of things. Locks in those kind of hotels are easy to pick for anybody who has a bit of experience. Anybody with the right tools would have picked that lock in a matter of minutes.

    They should have known better.

    Legally there was leniency on them, I bet in the US this would have caused them more than a bit of legal trouble for leaving their children alone and unsupervised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭tibruit


    The lock wasn`t picked. The parents left the door unlocked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    My neighbours used to put their kids in an upside down playpen, put books on top and then head down the field to help a sheep that was lambing.

    I don’t blame the McCanns at all. I wouldn’t have locked the doors either - I’d be way more worried about a fire and them being unable to get out than someone trying to break in.

    Was it a bad choice to leave them? - of course. In the same way it was a bad choice that my parents left six of us rattling about in the back of a car with no seatbelts. But being suspected as murderers on top of grieving, and then for the incompetent police to bungle justice… I mean, I think they get a let off here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    To be fair, and I know the whole it was/wasn't their fault thing won't be solved on Boards, implications that the restaurant was somehow quite removed from the apartment are wide of the mark - it really was very close. Just measured on Google Maps and it's about 50 metres straight line and maybe 70 metres walking distance.

    I believe the hotel offered a 'baby listening' service whereby staff would listen in at the door every so often - which was pretty much exactly what the group were doing anyway so I can see why they didn't bother paying for it.

    At the end of the day, they fucked up badly but maybe, just maybe, they didn't even consider the idea of some enterprising pedo being in the area*.


    *if that is what happened of course. One theory which I find quite plausible is that Madeleine got up (wasn't she or one of the other kids awake and disturbed on the previous check IIRC?), walked out the door into the street and got knocked down, maybe by a drunk driver who decided to get rid of the evidence sharpish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Even worse, I would say.

    I would disagree on that. By not locking the door and by leaving the children alone, they provided the opportunity for the crime to happen.

    I don't know how much the Portuguese police bungled up the investigation or not. But not finding any leads of somebody else automatically brings the idea of some accident happening and the parents covering things up. Also there would have been pressure to solve the case. Whether that's fair or unfair to suspect the parents, is besides the point. Fact is not much is known and it could only be the one or the other.

    The "ze" Germans must have some real convincing leads and reason to suspect Bueckner to start searching around the reservoir again. This leads me to believe that there is sufficient and credible evidence that it wasn't the parents but somebody like Bueckner or Bueckner himself.

    He must have staked out the place, familiarized himself with the place, and if he was after children, known where children were staying, known that the door was unlocked. Once the parents were at the tapas place, his opportunity came. That is if he did it.

    Yes, I think it was some 50 to 70 meters between the tapas place and the door, but there was no straight view of the door. So Maddie could easily have walked out by herself as well, not impossible to think. Straight into the hands of someobody like Bueckner or some reckless driver.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,448 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    The question of the parents culpability has been done to death .

    Here and everywhere . 16 years now..think that is more than most would pay for child negligence .

    I think it's time to move on , just my opinion as a mother .



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hopefully something comes of this. I hadnt realised the resevoir was searched in 08. Someone knows something thats for sure. You'd fear that there would be nothing left of the poor kid at this stage. My heart goes out for her and her family.

    Lets hope they get closure. You wouldnt wish this on anyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I'd say that they didn't search the entire whole area in 08. They were probably focusing on a different area than they are now. I also have no idea how much would be left of a body to identify after 16 years? - that is if she was murdered and hidden somewhere there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    The McCann's and their friends were criminally negligent to leave children unattended in the manner that they did. It is simply unforgivable.



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  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Blame wint bring that little girl back. Id imagine gerry and kate would happily spend the rest of their lives in prison if they got to spens one more day with her. The only person with any real blame is the monster who took her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,400 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    The final point you make is completely correct - that goes without saying. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children particularly very young children. The McCann's know that had they been more responsible and less selfish on that fateful evening , Madeline would be alive today. That's a huge burden they both will have to carry for the rest of their lives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭LunaLoo


    Remember what the German police said when they first announced C.B as a prime suspect, that they had proof Madeleine was dead.

    So we know C.B is in prison aftwr being convicted of the rape of the elderly american lady. He filmed it and wore a mask. He was found because of dna.


    We know police found thousands of images/videos containing child abuse images at his propperty in Germany.


    So my theory is Madeleine was identified in those images, but no other person identifable. They've probably spent years trying to establish where exactly the images were taken from tiny details in the images and witness statements.



    Also I think the parents at the time thought what they were doing was acceptable, on holidays people regularly do things that they wouldn't dream of at home. The fact the hotel offered a baby listening service shows they weren't the only ones doing it,, even butlins offered the same service at their chalets, if a staff member heard the children awake the room number would be announced to the crowd gathered at the entertainment hall. So the mccanns done what thousands of others have done, but theyre the ones who have had to pay the most unbearable price.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Well if the German police found pictures of Madeleine in Brueckner's property in Germany the connection between Brueckner and Madeleine is already made. Even worse if one of the pictures leads the police to believe Madeleine is dead in the picture. Who know what kind of barbaric things Brueckner has kept at his home? I am only aware that the police were digging at his house in Germany and looking for something. Did he drive from Portugal to Germany? Could he have even taken Madeleine's body to somewhere in Germany and buried her?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    That's what I think re the videos. The Germans seem very sure she's dead and that Brueckner was involved - how would they know that unless she 'featured' on some of the sick videos found? Remember, the USBs were hidden under the body of a buried dog - Brueckner obviously really did not want them found. However, unless he actually filmed himself identifiably, there's a reasonable doubt that he could have just got the video from someone else and had nothing to do with it personally and the prosecutors want to get something concrete to charge him. I saw a documentary re it where they said that the German investigation system is different to countries such as Ireland in that prosecutors 'filter' the evidence and will only charge when they have enough 'proven' good stuff to convict - rather than throwing enough mud and hoping some sticks. (This is also why Ian Bailey's French murder conviction reeks - the French (who have a similar system to the Germans) took all the bullshit evidence from the Gardai and essentially presented it as fact in his trial).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    It's her parents that should be hanging their heads in shame because they left their children alone while they went socialising.

    Fcuked if I'd be giving the parents a free pass. They were too scabby to pay for a babysitter even though they were fairly wealthy. I'm not saying the parents killed Maddie but they have to bear a very large chunk of responsibility for what happened.

    So no, I'll not be hanging my head in shame.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    These videos or pictures would at least establish a link between Madeleine's disappearance and Brueckner. It would apparently also establish that Madeleine is actually dead. Whether Brueckner did the killing or somebody he knew did the killing and gave him the pictures and videos isn't established yet.

    Apparently the police were gathering evidence and put them into beige bags to be taken to labs in Germany for further analysis. It's not known what they have found and put in these bags and how they could establish a link between the items found and Brueckner.

    It'll be interesting if they are able to link Brueckner to the murder without reasonable doubt after so many years. Possibly a milestone in criminal investigation. DNA evidence is possibly rare at this point? Do they have Brueckner's fingerprints? Or a murder weapon? Don't know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,333 ✭✭✭✭briany


    You could sum up a disgustingly large proportion of the public reaction to the McCann saga as, "These people have just lost their child and must be going through mental anguish and torment I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But.... let's hop on them, anyway!"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,204 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The problem is that the mistake the McCanns made is so trivial. Even worse for somebody with a university degree to make that mistake. It's like texting and driving, or driving without a seatbelt, or worse, driving at night with the headlights off. Yes, you can have luck, and nothing happens, or else, the inevitable will happen.

    I'd say, public opinion is evenly split about mental anguish and torment on the one side, and the fact that it was actually their mistake to begin with. Thus the debate is endless compassion vs surprise of such a simple mistake and not having gotten into more legal trouble.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,333 ✭✭✭✭briany


    They'll rue that mistake for the rest of their lives to an extent few of us here (thankfully) can ever really know. Why there would be a split on public opinion, I don't know, except that some loudmouths cannot help themselves from kicking people when they're down. OK, a person can think whatever they want to think about the McCanns' mistake, but the classy thing to do would be to withhold it in the old wisdom of, "If you have nothing nice to say..."

    The problem with the McCann case is that because the real culprit wasn't quickly found, the tabloids needed a scapegoat and the McCanns were the most obvious one. Cue "VERY BAD HORRIBLE PARENTS BOOZE IT UP ON THE TOWN WHILE LITTLE MADDIE SNATCHED FROM HER BED."



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