Incoming E10 fuel. Dreams dashed.

mikeecho · 04-03-2023 08:03PM

Why do people think that Japan has super duper petrol.

They have regular min 89ron, and hi octo, min96 ron

In Ireland we have premium, min 95 ron

Most petrol in Japan is 90ish ron with 1.8% ethanol.

They are not all driving around with 100ron.

flexcon · 06-03-2023 11:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314272#Comment_120314272

As someone who has a brother currently in Japan, that is not so. I am not sure where you got those figures from but they might be US PON which further confuses the issue. So using US measurements min96ron is just shy of 102RON

98RON in Ireland is 93RON(PON) in US.

But to counter back, 100 and 102 octane is everywhere in Japan. Nearly all turbo, and high revving Jap cars desire 100. With ECU changing the engine timing they can run on as low as 95 to prevent knock, but no less.

So the operating range of a typical 4AGE Toyota engine is 95-102 with 98-100 optimum

mikeecho · 06-03-2023 04:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319795#Comment_120319795

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.spglobal.com/platts/PlattsContent/_assets/_files/en/our-methodology/methodology-specifications/japan-domestic-oil-products-methodology.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjD4_mezMf9AhVykFwKHU6_DkwQFnoECC4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0JFvq1CbC7PXOAI6VkW2Pr

Screenshot_2023-03-06-15-16-37-12_f541918c7893c52dbd1ee5d319333948.jpg

click on the link, and it will bring you to a pdf with Japan's fuel info

wotzgoingon · 06-03-2023 04:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321297#Comment_120321297

But they do have high octane fuel as well as the cheaper stuff. We don't all we have is e5 and soon to be e10 and used to be 95.

mikeecho · 06-03-2023 09:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321364#Comment_120321364

Yes, but what I'm getting at is they don't have 95.

They only have regular 90 ron and super 96+ron.( Usually 98-100)

In Ireland we have premium 95.

I highly doubt everyone in Japan is running super.

.

There are 3 grades of fuel, regular (90 to 92ron), premium (95) and super (97+)

Europe, well the eu doesn't sell regular.

95 isn't a bad fuel, it's better than what a lot of the world uses.

I know my Ron Mon pon & aki's

flexcon · 07-03-2023 10:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322736#Comment_120322736

EDIT - Something aint right somewhere. No way you could run 89RON and not have excessive knock on most engines. I get the the US values but not the Japanese values you quoted.

Lowest I ever seen in Japan is 95. I'll be back, my brain is running wild

mikeecho · 07-03-2023 11:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324001#Comment_120324001

That's what I'm saying, they don't have 95

They have 89/90 ron, which is like the American 87aki/pon

And those jap specs were last set in 2002.

Yes they 98+

But as I've said, I don't think everyone there is using super plus

flexcon · 07-03-2023 11:40AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324122#Comment_120324122

Please double check my math, I feel like I might be gaslighting myself.

Still cannot wrap my head around Japan having 89RON sold in petrol stations.

In the US the pumps display PON(Pump Octane Number (PON))

So if a fuel in Japan is 89RON, that is equivalent to 81MON(Motor Octane Number) which means the PON is 85.

Yet minimum spec In us is 87PON.

that's insanely low. I guess my next bit of research is to check Toyota engines from some pickup trucks sold in Japan from 90 through to 2002 and see what the advised RON is.

tjhook · 07-03-2023 02:10PM

I'm really not following the technical details in this thread -

What I do think I understand is that the new e10 fuel provides fewer KM per litre, and perhaps slightly less power. I'm fine with that once there's an equivalent reduction in price. But I'm pretty confident there won't be. We'll be told E10 is equally expensive (or even more so) to produce, or there'll be a coincidental increase in taxation around the same time it is introduced.

Measures like this turn people against what would otherwise be perfectly sensible environmental changes.

flexcon · 07-03-2023 02:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324939#Comment_120324939

Looks like no price difference for when e10 comes in.

ThreeGreens · 07-03-2023 02:33PM

"Those fuel additives are trash, the only real substitute is getting someone in the north to buy some Aviation fuel and bring it down and mix it yourself lol."

Why in north? There is no difference between Avgas sold in the UK an the ROI.

If using avgas, be conscious that it contains lead. So if your car has a Cat convertor, it will destroy it.

keithb93 · 10-03-2023 09:06AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301515#Comment_120301515

I saw that same car in west cork recently, I couldn’t figure out what it was until now

Pops_20 · 10-03-2023 02:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306345#Comment_120306345

I haven't received any response from either yet, and it's been about 10 days.

Some articles in Irish Newspapers were saying how in the UK they have retained premium fuel as E5 but the demand is low, and based on that they think there will be zero demand in Ireland. Also the fact that a separate tank would be required.

However many stations already have two pumps, for example Circle K have Miles and Miles Plus. I assume there is a separate tank for Miles Plus. Could they not change Miles to E10, and keep MilesPlus at E5? I rarely see anyone opting for MilesPlus anyway, so it would make sense for them to offer an E5 option there.

Pops_20 · 13-03-2023 11:18PM

Reply from Circle K:

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your email.

We will not be continuing to offer e5 fuel once all of the transitioning to e10 is completed. We will be following government guidelines in relation to this process.

...Ghost... · 15-03-2023 06:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120355608#Comment_120355608

They're loving it. Less efficiency at same price means they lose less or nothing in the change and they gain from more frequent visits from the punters who buy a coffee and a roll when filling up.

Atlantic Dawn · 23-04-2023 04:05AM

Anyone refueled with this and noticed anything plus/negative? I've to refuel from near zero over the next few days, on paper no issue.

drunkmonkey · 23-04-2023 07:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510021#Comment_120510021

I put in a full tank of E10 up north a few weeks ago just finished using a full one of E5 down here, didn't notice any difference and mine still has the sticker on the dash to say use at least 98 Octane.

antodeco · 23-04-2023 09:01AM

Well I'd assume it would take a few fills for the ECU to adjust itself?

flexcon · 25-04-2023 10:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510171#Comment_120510171

Not really no, more like a few had flat the mat pulls. The ECU will adjust timing if needed on the fly. Most new cars id say from late 90's have knock sensors in them.

Girl Geraldine · 25-04-2023 11:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120298028#Comment_120298028

Well you see it actually wouldn't. Most petrol stations don't make any profit on selling fuel. The fuel is just a break-even or even loss leader to draw people into the shop and they will buy breakfast rolls, coffee, and other stuff and they make their money on that.

The market for this stuff is so small, no-one is going to bother with the hassle of it cos there is nothing to be gained from it. A few hundred petrol heads scattered around the country for a sunday drive does not a market make.

And anyway, you can get these performance fuels from some places, just not out of pump on a forecourt. Drennan Oil, Murray Motorsport, and a crowd called Sunco in Ennis being just a few examples. You can buy these sorts of performance fuels in barrels. Buy a pallet of it if you want.

kdevitt · 25-04-2023 05:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510021#Comment_120510021

Put some in my daily driver (BMW) two weeks back and zero issues. BMW have also come out to say that E10 is compatible with every petrol engined car they've ever made.

pah · 08-05-2023 03:04PM

The UK site for checking compatibility says my IS250 is not compatible with E10. 2006 4GR-FSE

If the Gubbinment enforce this E10 only policy what am I supposed to do?

amacca · 08-05-2023 05:21PM

I'm thinking about old motorcycles and lawnmowers etc ..Will this change render perfectly functioning machines obsolete?

Will this new fuel mess them up....Will you still be able to buy the old fuel?

Sorry for the questions, I don't have a clue clearly but qs are genuine.

elperello · 08-05-2023 05:39PM

This is the E10 info from Briggs and Stratton who make a lot of the lawnmower engines.

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/eu/en_gb/support/faqs/browse/E10-petrol-usage.html

wotzgoingon · 08-05-2023 05:48PM

My 1963 Ford Anglia is e10 ready. The cute hoors at Ford when they were designing the cars said in about 60 years time they will be using e10 petrol so we will make our vehicle compatible now and ready for the future.

It's your own fault if you bought some piece of scrap like Toyota or Honda that is not compatible.

elperello · 08-05-2023 06:11PM

Computer says no 🙂

https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10-petrol.service.gov.uk/manufacturer/Ford

mikeecho · 08-05-2023 10:58PM

I think it's July before it's actually supposed to be rolled out, but if you look at the UK, it was more than a year before fuel higher than 5%E started appearing on forecourts.

And you have to remember.. E10 is a max of 10%

E10 can be anything between 0 and 10.

Currently our E5 is actually E3. (Because of double counting)

So, E10 might only end up being E5 or 7 , but still labeled as E10

phill106 · 09-05-2023 10:01AM

Its already here...

Dr_Colossus · 09-05-2023 01:11PM

My first car, a Volvo S40 1.8 GDI wouldn't have been compatible with E10 according to above site. Would certainly believe that as it was originally a Mitsubishi Carisma engine and as direct injection petrol ideally needed super unleaded. Great car but eventually the high pressure fuel pump for the injectors failed and it wasn't economically to replace/repair so sold it for scrap years ago.