But who will look after you when you're old?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603472#Comment_120603472

What does the poster expect tbh, with some banal debating points?

I mentioned in another post, having a child carries risk. I think people know this. It's a human being at the end of the day, with its own personality, free will and all that.

If one cannot comprehend or handle that uncertainty in their lives fine, having children ain't for you. Which is fine.

Buy a Toyota Corolla instead with an extended warranty to put your mind at ease.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116814275#Comment_116814275

I am sorry to hear of your health issues.

I don't think anyone actually has kids on order that the kids look after them in their old age specificilly - however it can be a concern for many people.

At any age you can just drop dead suddenly - no real time for anyone to look after you and if this happens in your late 70's or 80's after living a decent life - happy days. The way I'd personally like to go. ie, get to "Old age" in the first instance without being a "burden" on anyone, kids or otherwise.

However it's possible we get to a certain age, and we start to have numerous health, mental and mobility issues where we cannot live without the care of someone. Even hospital appointments for "regular" things - dealing with "paperwork" that goes with every day life can be much more challenging as an older person. It is good to have someone there who wants to help and if you don't have that "someone" you envariably end up paying (in some manner) for that help and I suppose thats a consideration that we all should make - whether we have kids or not.

I assume its something that people who are childless build into their financial planning and general life planning and something, as I said, we all should consider as you cannot ever rely on your kids for help in later years. They will be living their lives - they may have significant challanges of their own to tend to.

DownByTheGarden

I dont think its actually a concern. Ive read this thread fully now and its clear to me that the OP and a whole lot of other people later somehow feel they need to convince everyone else that not having children is the right choice.

Nobody should have to convince anyone of anything.

Children are either for you or they are not.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608428#Comment_120608428

You're missing my point.

What I am saying by 'the correct way' is that it's still the thing our family and our peers expect us to do by default. As pointed out by many folks in this thread maintaining it is the status quo.

Try being a recently married person who doesn't want to have children and you'll know what I mean by the questions you continually get asked.

When there's a status quo in society, people can feel pressure to follow suit. Without giving it too much consideration as to whether it's actually the right choice for them. How many folks in Ireland question their Catholic faith for example?

Consider the concept of 'keeping up with the Joneses'. People feel pressure at a certain point in their life to have achieve X things - have a certain lifestyle, a house, cars, 2.4 children.

You can surely acknowlege that as a thing and that we do not as of yet live in a society where nobody at all bats an eyelid if you dont want children?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608555#Comment_120608555

You heard it here folks, 'children are either for you or they are not' - no need for the forum anymore, close it all down.

This is a discussion forum about not having children, therefore people are going to discuss not having children.

Or did I miss a memo?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608555#Comment_120608555

Or this is a discussion forum and people merely wish to share their opinions.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608555#Comment_120608555

Funny. I've never once tried to convince anyone else that them having children was the wrong choice. On several occasions I've had people trying to convince me that me *not* having kids was the wrong choice.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608491#Comment_120608491

Then you're easily amazed. Parents lie:

1. "It'll be different for you."
2. "He's just differently abled."
3. "Best thing I ever did," despite a lifetime of examples of regret and unhappiness

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608471#Comment_120608471

Yes, because they chose to have a child. Disability's just an outcome, and really not that rare.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608797#Comment_120608797

Lying is the preserve of parents?

People lie, not just parents.

But your central theme here is that there are scores and scores of parents out there who have children but lie about not regretting having them, despite no evidence.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608803#Comment_120608803

They chose to have a child, they didn't choose to have a child with a disability. No one chooses that, but most parents in that scenario accept it, get on with it and love their kids all the same.

To say parents chose to have a child with a disability is pretty outrageous tbh.

Flinty997

This thread was derailed by it's own thread title.

All it had to ask was what planning have you done for when you're older. End of.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608812#Comment_120608812

Lying about the benefits of having children is the province of parents. People lie about plenty of things as you point out, my response was to a question (paraphrasing), 'if there's downsides why do I hear about how great it is.' Answer: lying.

Here is the comment I'm responding to:

"I just begin to question what people are telling me when everyone who makes this completely irreversible life choice coincidentally also puts forward a 100% joyous, 'best life ever!' type of view on the thing."

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603472#Comment_120603472

I stated that the majority of outcomes are not negative, the poster replied with stats that back up my assertion yet talked about "rolling the dice" regarding having a non negative outcome.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608826#Comment_120608826

If you choose to have a child, you choose to run the risk of that child being disabled, with all the concomitant impacts on your life. I'm not saying you want a disabled child, but that you're choosing, to roll the dice.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603688#Comment_120603688

To be fair, if you are going to change the meaning of words its going to make for a complicated discussion!

1 in 15 is a minority, no one says you ignore or don't consider a monitory, but its still a minority, the majority of outcomes or 14 out of 15 times are non negative.

I don't think arguments like this add anything to your argument.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608591#Comment_120608591

First of all..

People getting together and having children is the status quo because it's what human beings have been doing for thousands of years. Our societal structure is built around the family for various reasons but the primary reason is the time it takes for a child to grow up to be an adult. Human existence has centred around this evolutionary biological fact. This is why you see similar family structures the world over. There might be subtle differences between having an extended community-based family you might see in tribes to a more modern western atomic family but the constant to these are still children.

Another example is marriage. Marriage is the status quo for similar reasons to the above (historically centred around who inherits what when people die). Yet people are still free not to get married, even though marriage is the 'status quo'.

How many folks in Ireland question their Catholic faith for example?

Well, loads, considering people who go to mass is at an all-time low and people who answer no religion has more than doubled in the past 10 years.

Consider the concept of 'keeping up with the Joneses'. People feel pressure at a certain point in their life to have achieve X things - have a certain lifestyle, a house, cars, 2.4 children.

Who are these people? I'd wager they are few and far between. It seems you are projecting your own thoughts and insecurity about your decision to not have children onto the entire population as if there are huge swathes of people out there that were pressured to have kids by some unknown force and are totally and utterly unhappy with it.

Maybe there are just a lot of people who want/wanted to have children and are quite happy with that choice?

You can surely acknowlege that as a thing and that we do not as of yet live in a society where nobody at all bats an eyelid if you dont want children?

Does the odd comment exist? Sure, usually from mothers and grandmothers and the like, but who cares at the end of the day.

Is it some pervasive force in society that moves sentient average intelligent beings to be parents against their will? No, not at all.

This is not the 50s or even the 80s when it was genuinely very difficult to not have kids if you were in a relationship since contraception was more or less illegal even for married couples.

It's never been easier to be child-free in the history of humanity. Enjoy it. There is no conspiracy against you.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608839#Comment_120608839

Yea, the stats posted was a blunt instrument to point out how 'bad and risky' it was to have kids.

My nephew has Aspergers, would he fall into that bracket, because for all intents and purposes, he lives a normal life.

One of my children has a genetic mutation that can cause issues. It's a lifelong thing that will have to be monitored going forward and will require multiple surgical interventions throughout their lives. Would that fall under the 'disabled' category? Do I love them less, am I unhappy with this outcome? Do I regret having kids? Absolutely not.

I do find it ironic that some here who don't have kids, are complaining about society and its pressures to have kids, telling people who have kids what they are really feeling and thinking.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608842#Comment_120608842

You mean there is no cast-iron guarantee that if you have a child it won't be 'perfect'?

Wow, thanks for the insight. I'm sure no one ever thought of that before you mentioned it.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608832#Comment_120608832

Lying about the benefits of having children is the province of parents.

How do you know they are lying?

"I just begin to question what people are telling me when everyone who makes this completely irreversible life choice coincidentally also puts forward a 100% joyous, 'best life ever!' type of view on the thing."

Again, how do you know they are lying and not genuinely happy?

Does it bother you that children make people happy and most of all why do you care so much?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608995#Comment_120608995

Absolutely does not bother me at all that children make people happy, I think it's great - power to them.

I hope most people who say they are happy to me are genuine.

I just find it to be an incredible coincidence and amazing really how 100% of people who have children, an unchangeable life decision, also seem to have made the 'right' decision in having children.

What are the odds, eh? 3.5 billion parents in the world, all made the right decision. It's a miracle, really.

Is it not at all possible, that similar to all big decisions people make, some will be happy in the decision, some will not be happy and regret it?

Again, it does not bother me that people want children and that children make them happy. I'm just trying to give some insight to the mind of someone who has decided not to have children and the reasons as to why. (IE, I don't believe a lot of parents are 100% as happy as they portray themselves to be)

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615912#Comment_120615912

I hope most people who say they are happy to me are genuine.

Yet you seem to be very cynical when people express their opinions on this.

I just find it to be an incredible coincidence and amazing really how 100% of people who have children, an unchangeable life decision, also seem to have made the 'right' decision in having children.

Who really makes this argument that 100% of people feel like this? You are always going to get outliers and edge cases.

I never made that argument, no one else here has made this argument that 100% of people, i.e. EVERYONE is happy with that decision to have children. It's a bit of a foolish argument to be honest.

You are debating a point no one here has made.

What are the odds, eh? 3.5 billion parents in the world, all made the right decision. It's a miracle, really.

Again, a foolish argument that no one has made.

Is it not at all possible, that similar to all big decisions people make, some will be happy in the decision, some will not be happy and regret it?

You mean by, some people not have children? Because you are making a very good argument against remaining childless, after all, how sure can you be that one does not regret that decision? Eh ;)

Again, it does not bother me that people want children and that children make them happy.

The tone and narrative of your posts seem to convey otherwise.

I'm just trying to give some insight to the mind of someone who has decided not to have children and the reasons as to why. 

How can you know the mind of a parent who has kids, when you are not one yourself? Do you not realise how arrogant that comes across?

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616101#Comment_120616101

Sigh. More pop psychology. Are you a psychiatrist? Because the armchair analysis gets old.

Back to the original subject of this thread: who will take care of you when you're old. Assuming you have children, do you think they'll take care of you when you are old? Are you taking care of your parents?

The point of the thread is, having children because you think they'll take care of you when your old, is a fools game and a gamble with someone else's life, namely, the children you bring into the world to take care of you.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617349#Comment_120617349

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to another poster.

I did respond to you about other questions, which seem to have been ignored though.

However...

Because the armchair analysis gets old.

Ironic coming from you who thinks the majority of parents are unhappy that they have children and are just lying about it.

The point of the thread is, having children because you think they'll take care of you when your old, is a fools game and a gamble with someone else's life, namely, the children you bring into the world to take care of you.

People who think like this in this day and age who are of childbearing age are in a huge minority. People are far more independent and educated nowadays to be thinking it's still the 1950's when such expectations are put on their own children to look after them when they get old.

Honestly, I have never ever encountered this point raised when talking to my older parents or my peers or friends.

As I mentioned, the people who will be looking after you when you get old will ultimately be someone else's kid.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617349#Comment_120617349

People have kids because they think one of them might win the lotto or start the next amazon.