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The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,687 ✭✭✭elefant


    'in the last few years the way decent coached teams have bet blankets is with a counter attack at pace. Moving the ball with a mix of long range kick passing and through the hands. They are also not afraid to shoot. If it goes wide so be it, But it's better than slowing things down to the point of walking pace and not getting an chance to have a shot again.'

    I don't know about that. Dublin's shooting efficiency, and consistency is only shooting from very specific positions, was incredibly good for all of their 6-in-a-row seasons and they regularly slowed things down to walking pace. There was nobody taking potshots on those teams.



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Agreed but I have said in the last few years though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,276 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I think Fitzmaurice is very astute in his analysis and always picks small details out, that plenty would miss - even the ref. He can’t help his tone of voice though. But many can’t see/hear past it.

    I view Fitzmaurice as the ‘anti-Brolly’ - no hype, no hyperbole, no pantomime, detailed analysis of the game. I know which I prefer.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,092 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Use him as a halftime/after match pundit then.

    He's a hard listen live.



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A lot of that is very easy to pick up on with multiple angels and interviews. It's his job.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,276 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Many others don’t do their job though! Fitzmaurice always seems to be well tuned in.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Ragwort and Stones


    When you have multiple angels you get heavenly analysis 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Treble double


    Fitzmaurice is head and shoulders above anyone else as a co commentator.


    He knows the game inside out, he managed Kerry to an All Ireland in his thirties. He picks up the nuances of the present day game and passes them on to the viewer, exactly what he is paid to do, but so many other are getting paid aswell and are just not able to do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,276 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Fitzmaurice even picked out ref giving card to wrong fella before a replay- one of recent games. He Thought he might be wrong apologised. Then realised he was correct when saw the replay. Stuff like that. Great on spotting little positional changes. Seems to miss very little. And is crucially able to give the info to the viewer.

    Annoying as it is two of the best pundit:commentators are Fitzmaurice and Tomás Ó Sé - both Kerrymen! But different styles. Both spot the details though.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,947 ✭✭✭threeball


    All the nuances are over by half or full time. He latches on to formation changes or positional switches in an instant. You could be 10mins watching the game on TV before you'd notice it. Thats when you want it. If you had a better commentator than Marty then Fitzmaurice tone isn't an issue.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,554 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Marty is a clown, heaping praise on a Murtagh free that was about 5 foot to the left of the post.

    He's been dining out on his meme reputation for a decade at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭gucci


    This is it for me, the game has evolved to a state where I am confused at times whats going on (a vastly different sport to what i watched and played for years)

    I want someone who understands the tactical approach (and communicate it) on the game co-comms. He delivers in this excellently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,469 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    It's funny.

    There is a thread in AH complaining about women analysts in men's sports.

    The complaint is that they are only there for show, and that people want real analysis, not something superficial like good looks.

    But here people are complaining about a good analysts because of something superficial, i.e. his voice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,092 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    All depends on what you are looking for.

    I am not looking for that type of analysis during a game.

    Murray Kinsella wouldn't work co-commentating on the rugby but has a huge value after or before a game.

    Football is an entertainment and this guy kills that value stone dead on the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Was just looking at the dates for the group fixtures and it looks like part of the groups are pre-determined on a provincial basis - the first group games are on 20-21 May (Sat/Sun) and 27-28 May (Sat/Sun) and you'd assume that all 8 provincial finalists will get 2 weeks before their 1st group game. Since the Connacht & Munster finals are on 07th May, it seems that the groups are going to be:

    Group 1: Connacht winner, Munster runner-up, 3rd seeds, 4th seeds

    Group 2: Munster winner, Connacht runner-up, 3rd seeds, 4th seeds

    And with the Ulster & Leinster finals on May 14th:

    Group 3: Leinster winner, Ulster runner-up, 3rd seeds, 4th seeds

    Group 4: Ulster winner, Leinster runner-up, 3rd seeds, 4th seeds

    In which case, Group 3 is the group most 3rd & 4th seeds will want to avoid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    I think GAA HQ has since said provincial runners up could be any group and decided by the draw on May 2nd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Oh right - seems potentially quite unfair on the Ulster/Leinster runners up who might be left with a one week turnaround (although it'll be at home to the 4th seed so maybe that lessens the impact somewhat)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    I think what is happening is that Leinster and Ulster finalists will play R1 two weeks after their finals. All other counties will play a week earlier. R1 is basically over two weeks. It reduces the wait for some counties. All finalists know they'll be playing two weeks afterwards. All others don't have that certainty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,056 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    They might be expecting walk overs? Anyway these are the Tie Break rules. With teams playing just three games in a league, they might be needed.

    Tie-Breakers – Group Stage In the event of teams finishing on equal points in the Groups, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified below;

    (vi) Where two teams only are involved – the outcome of the meeting of the two teams in the group

    (vii) Score difference – subtracting the total Scores against from the total Scores for;

    (viii) Highest Total Score For;

    (ix) Highest Total Goals For;

    (x) A Play-Off.

    In the event that two teams or more finish with equal points, but have been affected by a disqualification, loss of game on a proven objection, retirement or walk over, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified below:

    (iv) Score Difference from the games in which only the teams involved, (teams tied on points), have played each other. (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For)

    (v) Highest Total Score For, in which only the teams involved, have played each other, and have finished equal in (iv)

    (vi) A Play-Off



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,114 ✭✭✭Boom__Boom


    This clears up some of the stuff in relation to the structure.

    Only restriction at group stages (besides the seedings) is that the provincial winner and loser from the same province can't be in the same group.

    i.e The Munster winner can be drawn against the Connacht loser, the Ulster loser and the Leinster loser.

    Also all provincial teams will get at least 13 days between their provincial final and opening Sam Maguire Cup games.

    [quote] GAA confirm Sam Maguire start date for four provincial football finalists

    The Sam Maguire Cup draw is set for Tuesday, May 2 following the completion of all provincial semi-finals this weekend.

    MON, 24 APR, 2023 - 12:20

    JOHN FOGARTY

    The GAA have clarified that all four senior football finalists in Connacht and Munster will start their Sam Maguire Cup groups on the weekend of May 20/21.

    In a response to a query from the Irish Examiner, it has been explained Clare, Kerry, Galway and Sligo will all play two weeks after the provincial finals on May 7.

    The winners of Connacht and Munster will face third seeds at home (either Mayo, Roscommon, Tyrone plus one) in their opening game with the runners-up also at home taking on fourth seeds (either Donegal, Westmeath plus two).

    However, the provinces aren’t guaranteed to be paired, i.e. Munster winners with Connacht finalists and vice-versa. The victors can also be drawn in the same group as the runners-up in Leinster and Ulster. Likewise, the Connacht and Munster runners-up could find themselves in the same groups as the champions in the bigger provinces.

    However, to ensure all teams have at least 13 days between their provincial final and opening Sam Maguire Cup games, there is a possibility not all group’s first round games will take place on the same weekend.

    For example, if Kerry win Munster and Louth finish second in Leinster and they are drawn in the same group, Jack O’Connor’s side will play their first-round game at home against third seeds a week earlier than Mickey Harte’s team at home to fourth seeds. All second and third round games take place over the same weekends.

    The Sam Maguire Cup draw is set for Tuesday, May 2 following the completion of all provincial semi-finals this weekend.

    Sam Maguire Cup dates.

    May 20/21: Connacht and Munster finalists’ 1st round games (Provincial winners at home v 3rd seeds; provincial runners-up at home v 4th seeds).

    May 27/28: Leinster and Ulster finalists’ 1st round games. Provincial winners at home v 3rd seeds; provincial runners-up at home v 4th seeds).

    June 3/4: All four groups’ 2nd round games (4th seeds at home v provincial winners; 3rd seeds at home v provincial runners-up).

    June 17/18: All four groups’ 3rd and final round games (Provincial winners v provincial runners-up at neutral venue; 3rd seeds v 4th seeds at neutral venues). [/quote]

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41123461.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,056 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    However, to ensure all teams have at least 13 days between their provincial final and opening Sam Maguire Cup games, there is a possibility not all group’s first round games will take place on the same weekend.

    That possibility was already catered for back in December, when the 2023 fixtures calendar was published. And the group compositions were already outlined then, with the only stipulation being that Provincial final pairings could not be repeated. There was no late change to the rules or dates, but the above from John Fogarty puts some useful meat on the bones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    The Tailteann group stage draw should take place after all the All-Ireland semi-finals as per the current plan.

    The All-Ireland group stage draw should take place after all the finals have taken place. Group stage draw before the finals is an unnecessary distraction. Non finalists will be able to scout their opponents in the finals giving them something of a head start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,256 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    I'm the opposite. I don't tend to watch at half time it after the game, just the action, and I find Fitzmaurice excellent.

    The alternative has been the likes of nice but dim Des 'he'll be disappointed in that' Dolan who has nothing to say,and whose value was seen in the 2nd half of WH v LH yesterday.

    Toy could have the worst of both worlds, like Cora Staunton who has a horrible drone of a voice and has nothing to say either (FWIW one of the best of the new breed of analysis I've seen of the new batch is Lisa Fallon in the soccer, people need to pass less heed on gender and judge by knowledge)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,884 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    I'd also have a worry that some of the bite could be taken out of the Ulster Final if the known reward for winning was a 'group of death' whilst the runners-up were going into the softest looking group.

    Now both teams would clearly still try to win, as a provincial final matters, but it's not a particularly good idea for the first year of the tournament to potentially have a 'better to lose' conspiracy gaining traction.


    edit/addition:

    I guess the most extreme situation would be if Sligo beat Galway, and the draw put the Ulster runners-up in with Sligo, Westmeath and the weakest of Pot 3. With the Ulster winners being drawn with Galway#2, Tyrone or Mayo from #3 and say Donegal#4. That would make winning Ulster a bit of a known booby prize. But generally these extreme 'worst case' scenarios don't come to pass.

    Post edited by ArmaniJeanss on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,056 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    RTE have the latest permutations, which we all know.

    (There was a mistake when I read it first, and it had a timeline of 20:30,24th. It had Louth and Offaly both as possible Pot 4 counties, an impossibility. The timeline is now 00:40, 25th, and it has been corrected).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,554 ✭✭✭✭cson


    They need a shot clock once you get into an opponents half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭LoveMeSexy


    It's not possible because of the nature of the game. The shot-clock works well in basketball because there is a clear point at which the shot clock resets for the offensive team i.e. the shot-clock only resets if the ball hits the ring itself, backboard does not count in this regard. How could you possibly do this in GAA ? what would be defined as a shot and what would be defined as a ball dropping short/a long ball high or low into the forward line ? Anyone could easily just argue it was a miss kicked shot



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,348 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It would only encourage the blanket defense as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,469 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But it's different from hurling and their Munster and Leinster round robin because there are more teams involved,.

    You are unlikely to get the same matchups every year in the football group stages, whereas your will get the same matchups every year in the hurling round robin.

    As for the provincials being more meaningless than ever, isn't that the idea?

    The provincial system is terrible as a selection process for the All Ireland series.

    How can qualification for the All Ireland series be fair when the likes of Sligo only have to beat London, New York and Galway to qualify, whereas Monaghan have to beat Tyrone, Derry and Armagh to qualify.

    The group stages at least try to even up the All Ireland series and make it less reliable on a uneven system.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Counties rejected motions to have an even number of teams in the provinces. Lopsided draws can be fixed with using league placing to seed the provincial draws.

    The attempts of lower league counties to qualify have made the provincial games more interesting. The battle of counties already qualified have been interesting as well. Tyrone v Monaghan and Roscommon v Galway were good battles.



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