Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

By saying that I was incorrect to assert that another governing body could bring in similar sex-based rules for eligibility to the female criteria…

I didn’t say you were incorrect in stating that. I said that the legal impediment still exists, which it does. The same legal impediment applies to every organisation, still does. You even quoted the bit of my post where I said it, and then you refer to ‘similar sex-based rules’, and not ‘broadly similar rules’, which is what you previously posted. We’ve already discussed the fact that exemptions exist in Irish law which mean that organisations are permitted in certain circumstances to discriminate, provided the discrimination is considered the only reasonable means of achieving a legitimate aim.

Instead of trying to do my thinking for me, perhaps you could explain why you think your real world example constitutes unlawful discrimination?

1) They do.

2) You’re mistaken -

https://www.rookieroad.com/boxing/can-pro-boxers-compete-in-the-olympics/

3) Nobody cares

4) They clearly haven’t heard you!

It doesn't. If it did then why is CTE so common within American Football, if it worked so well then there would be very little cases if any.

And, just to repeat. How would you "eliminate" discrimination in sports, if there are any? If competitors are being discriminated again, what measures would you seem to change the rules. Please answer that, you have not answered it.

Like all the other wedge issues of our lifetime, it does have to be this difficult, because there are opposing torts, rights, privileges and injuries both perceived and real.

And strictly speaking, forces like Equal Rights have more force behind it - and the UN recognizes participation in sports as a human right.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/16138171.2022.2032920?journalCode=ress20#:~:text=Participation%20in%20sport%20is%20recognised,cultural%20life%20of%20the%20community'.

Have a good weekend everyone.

It does, because if they weren’t gussied up like gladiators, injuries would be a lot more common than they are, and a lot more severe than they are. It’s a bit more complicated even than that though because players in the modern game are colliding with much greater force than in previous times, imagining themselves to be impervious, which is why I made the point that the protection they do wear only reduces the risk of injury, it doesn’t eliminate entirely the risk of injury. There is all sorts of research going on to improve safety in the game for all players, from helmets which register the g-forces players are being hit with (the worst rugby tackles are about 20g, American football players experience five times that, about 100g), and yet still there are players who behave like they’re being asked to put on a condom! 😒

I’ve answered your question several times now - where discrimination exists, change the rules which are discriminatory. For example, Chris Mosier campaigned to have the IOC change the guidelines as they were then for transgender athletes, which then enabled them to be eligible to participate in the Olympics in accordance with their preferred gender -

While he qualified, Mosier was uncertain about his eligibility to compete in the Duathlon Age Group World Championship Race in Spain in June 2016 due to the International Olympic Committee policy around the participation of transgender athletes, with specific provisions from the Stockholm Consensus in 2004. In 2015, Mosier challenged the policy, resulting in the creation and adoption of new IOC guidelines for the participation of transgender athletes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mosier

Thanks for proving what I was saying, that it is indeed a wedge issue.

Rather than me linking to anything, I’d love for you to link me to anything which even suggests that other animals even have the capacity to give a flying fcuk about biology, and I don’t mean the “dolphins are the most intelligent species in the animal kingdom” type stuff either. They had to be trained to carry bombs, it’s not as though they have the capacity to observe humans and imagine “I’d love to do that shìt, hey mam I’m off to LARP those four limbed freaks!” That’d be class though 😂

Basically I’m saying what you’re arguing amounts to nothing more than anthropomorphism, and yes, humans absolutely did make up the biological differences between the sexes - taxonomy is part of biology, and there have been a few different classification systems invented in order to classify organisms and distinguish between them species and all that stuff that has been observed and categorised, classified and documented…by humans.

You even have to put “make up” in inverted commas, because that’s exactly how we observe differences and classify humans accordingly. We observe similar behaviour patterns in other animals entirely based upon our own ideas! It doesn’t follow that other animals have any concept of sex differences. They’re literally just acting in accordance with nature, and humans like to think we’re above all that stuff, that we too aren’t just animals in nature.

Of course my argument isn’t that males and females are the same, they’re clearly not. It’s precisely how we do distinguish between the sexes, by observing the differences between them. When one of my work colleagues refers to her babies, I know she’s not referring to humans. I don’t even go there with her because I just can’t bring myself to do it.

When I said that I would tell them to try harder, you were asking me a direct question referring specifically to a woman. You inferred from my answer that I would only tell a woman who had just lost out to a man to try harder. Had I realised at the time it was a loaded question, I would have made it clear that I’d say the same to anyone who had just lost out on something, be it a race, a job, whatever. What I wouldn’t do is entertain the idea that they should get to choose who competes against them, with the idea being that success in competition is their automatic right and to take that from them is unfair. That’s the sort of logic I’d expect of a man who claims it’s unfair that he is denied the right to have babies, and they must fight their oppressors. I’ve no doubt you can see the underlying fundamental problem with that statement.

“Nothing to do with biology”

There it is folks, the declaration of blind faith ideology from someone how knows nothing about entry level science. It’s allllllll a social construct.

Read the opening post again Frank, the discussion is about people who are transgender being treated unfairly in sport, precisely because they are transgender. There are no reasons for this which can be attributed to biology, they are entirely due to policy.

The reason I brought up Chris Mosier was because I was told I know nothing about sport, so it couldn’t be said that Chris Mosier knows nothing about sport - not only are they an elite athlete, they are transgender, they also campaigned to have the IOC change their policies regarding the eligibility criteria for transgender athletes.

”But men can run faster” has nothing to do with anything, as though by virtue of the fact I’m a man, I’m capable of doing 50k walks and women aren’t. What you’re doing isn’t arguing using scientific evidence (you don’t have any) or reason, it’s trying to blind anyone opposed to your beliefs with bullshìt.

I don’t pretend to care about women’s sports btw, I figured I had made it clear by now that what I do care about are Human Rights, unlike your “male privilege” nonsense, while telling me to leave the feelings at the door. I’m also not the person pretending that nothing makes sense, or critiquing the post when I have nothing else (and you have nothing else). If that’s the kind of conversation you want to be having, try Chat GPT - It’s very good for demonstrating a simple concept in computer science - “garbage in, garbage out”.

You know full well that the reasons are biological and nothing at all due to policy. 

I’ve just demonstrated how that’s simply not the case. Science isn’t about proving anything, it’s about understanding the natural world. It’s a tool, nothing more. You’re using the same rationale that was used to declare that women should be relegated to the domestic sphere because they are incapable of functioning in public life due to their inferior physiology, as proven by ‘science’ at the time.

We can see from history how that’s worked out since - before women were permitted to study medicine and science (that’s right- permitted!), little was understood about women’s physiology. Since then, there has been more research conducted into women’s healthcare and so on, and the same principle applies to sports - equal resources and development of women in sports would lead to better research which would lead to better informed policies and decision making, rather than treating men as the standard and women as though they are an aberration -

https://www.northwell.edu/katz-institute-for-womens-health/articles/women-overlooked-in-medical-research

Probably because his opinion is like some sort of deranged fantasy based on nothing