Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Government policy has turned land and housing into a deposit account product rather than places to live for our citizens.

The next eviction ban to be lifted needs to be this government evicted from power. They are the problem not the solution

It is a bad sign when our best hope is for our own young take a one way ticket out.

exactly.

The govt need to do more to support key workers though.

These stories spin the truth somewhat as everyone at these events is interested in moving abroad in the first place.

That said, there is a genuine teacher shortage in Dublin and its getting worse.

Yet conversely, the country is dripping with money and tax surplus is through the roof.

Will the govt finally invest more into housing and pop the rent bubble?

The govt are staring at an open goal. They have the money, but will they reform the planning system and invest heavily in housing? Or will they keep on keepin' on.

Agreed except for the tax piece. A newly minted teacher in Ireland on 40k would pay very little tax. Less than 20% effective rate.

Effective income taxes start to get high on people earnings €60/70k+ in Ireland but are very very low on everyone else. There is no scope to reduce taxes on relatively lower income earners and narrow the tax base even further.

The 50k/60k + income bracket do not pay for everything

PAYE is only 1/3 of the tax take, so 2/3 of the money that pays for everything does not come from income tax

Vat generates nearly as much tax as Paye. Low/middle income workers in general spend all their income so will pay higher vat as a percentage of their total income.

The country is kept ticking over by an educated, flexible, income stable at the low to middle income levels that help generate significant corporate tax

Tax spending is often spent in a way that drives up rent and house prices which is a benefit to asset prices held more often by higher income earners and very costly to low mid income earners.

Tax spending is used to incentivise the purchase of cars, refurbishment of homes etc which lower income groups in general can't afford

Higher income groups can avail of very beneficial tax breaks to build up there pension while lower income groups are less likely to afford any type of pension.

All this before we mention that lower income groups are more likely to be renting. What's left after the rent is paid?

A bit less of the poor mouth, with a small bit of digging, again it's another narrative that does not pass the sniff test

That belongs on the badvisualisations blog

https://www.tumblr.com/badvisualisations/185605439981/this-is-a-great-example-of-data-mining-where?source=share

I was refering to paying for everything in the the context of income tax.

The Middle/Upper earners effectivley pay all of the income tax.

lower earners spend a larger percentage of their income generally, agreed.

But they dont spend as much in absolute terms, so VAT is still driven largely by the middle/upper earners who are paying almost all of the income tax, as per my first point.

The middle and upper earners are hugely driving the income tax, PRSI, USC and VAT take. There is no question about that and it would be good to see some form of tax reduction for those groups.

People on 40k obviously pay some tax. But anyone earning 30k or less is paying 50 euro a week tax, at most.

thats basically no tax and given that a lot of part time workers as well as full time workers earn 30k or less, there are a lot of workers who arent really contributing to the tax take.

what percentage of workers, full and part time, earn 30k or less?

i'd imagine its close to 50%, given that over 1 in 4 of the work force is part time.

Therefore, half of the workforce is paying no, or very little, income tax.

Tax credits could be used yes, but then they should be raised for everyone, not just the low paid.

There are plenty of middle income earners struggling because they dont get medical cards, fuel allowances, HAP assistance etc.

These people are paying through the nose for everything but getting none of the benefits.

Hopefully any govt tax reduction measures will benefit everyone, not just the low paid.

USC charge should be scrapped fully. For some it is 8%.

Medical it is baffling one, everyone who pays high taxes should be given 2/3 times a year Free medical! Most countries in Europe have free medical... Some who are seen poorer in Europe... Poorer yet so much richer than Ireland!

Bonuses should be no tax applied on them, at the end of the day it is the hard work of the employee that gets them a bonus... Why should revenue get more money out the bonus than the employee. Tax on bonuses should be scrapped!

USC being scrapped would be a good one. But I cant see them doing it.

Agree on the medical costs.

The price of doctors visits and medication is nuts and to think all those that have to pay for it are free funding it for so many others via medical cards.

Its a double hit for the middle earner.

You have to pay for everyone elses medical card via your taxes, but you dont get one.

And by the way, you also have to cough up 50 euro for a phone consultation with the doctor and then pay again for your medication!

It would be good to see free for all healthcare.

Give us all medical cards, rather than reserving them only for those that dont pay for them via their taxes.

The scrapping of taxes on bonus will never happen, but maybe they could fix it at 20%.

I doubt it though :)

Id