Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

We could argue the pros and cons till the cows come home, bottom line we need rental properties today. Commencements are down for the 3rd month in a row, whatever gets building done get it done. The government don't need any help in pissing money away atleast the average working citzens sees something out of this.

You'd often wonder why Irelands social housing policy has evolved to be so expensive.

I've no issue with the private sector making a profit, I and most others work with in that system after all.

Current policy has created barriers and added costs to small developers and landlords while rewarding much larger operators who can lobby and have the ear of government. That lobbying has resulted in policies that appear to have small landlords and developers rushing for the exits and discouraging new entrants.

Creating an environment that encourages and at least levels the playing field for small operators to compete with the larger operators increases efficiencies and innovation within the sector.

Continuing with current processes guarantees higher costs and activities that add no value, increase costs, suppress supply, encourage land and property banking as well as vacancy and delapidation.

This all adds cost to every single tax payer and private entity trying to make a profit. Please stop trying be a messiah for private enterprise

Is there anyone going to jail or is it just the usual corrupt crooks running the country?

Government policy has turned land and housing into a deposit account product rather than places to live for our citizens.

The next eviction ban to be lifted needs to be this government evicted from power. They are the problem not the solution

It is a bad sign when our best hope is for our own young take a one way ticket out.

exactly.

The govt need to do more to support key workers though.

These stories spin the truth somewhat as everyone at these events is interested in moving abroad in the first place.

That said, there is a genuine teacher shortage in Dublin and its getting worse.

Yet conversely, the country is dripping with money and tax surplus is through the roof.

Will the govt finally invest more into housing and pop the rent bubble?

The govt are staring at an open goal. They have the money, but will they reform the planning system and invest heavily in housing? Or will they keep on keepin' on.

Agreed except for the tax piece. A newly minted teacher in Ireland on 40k would pay very little tax. Less than 20% effective rate.

Effective income taxes start to get high on people earnings €60/70k+ in Ireland but are very very low on everyone else. There is no scope to reduce taxes on relatively lower income earners and narrow the tax base even further.

The 50k/60k + income bracket do not pay for everything

PAYE is only 1/3 of the tax take, so 2/3 of the money that pays for everything does not come from income tax

Vat generates nearly as much tax as Paye. Low/middle income workers in general spend all their income so will pay higher vat as a percentage of their total income.

The country is kept ticking over by an educated, flexible, income stable at the low to middle income levels that help generate significant corporate tax

Tax spending is often spent in a way that drives up rent and house prices which is a benefit to asset prices held more often by higher income earners and very costly to low mid income earners.

Tax spending is used to incentivise the purchase of cars, refurbishment of homes etc which lower income groups in general can't afford

Higher income groups can avail of very beneficial tax breaks to build up there pension while lower income groups are less likely to afford any type of pension.

All this before we mention that lower income groups are more likely to be renting. What's left after the rent is paid?

A bit less of the poor mouth, with a small bit of digging, again it's another narrative that does not pass the sniff test

The examples given all seem to be either retired or close to it. Not sure anyone mid-career would move over.

That belongs on the badvisualisations blog

https://www.tumblr.com/badvisualisations/185605439981/this-is-a-great-example-of-data-mining-where?source=share

I was refering to paying for everything in the the context of income tax.

The Middle/Upper earners effectivley pay all of the income tax.

lower earners spend a larger percentage of their income generally, agreed.

But they dont spend as much in absolute terms, so VAT is still driven largely by the middle/upper earners who are paying almost all of the income tax, as per my first point.

The middle and upper earners are hugely driving the income tax, PRSI, USC and VAT take. There is no question about that and it would be good to see some form of tax reduction for those groups.

People on 40k obviously pay some tax. But anyone earning 30k or less is paying 50 euro a week tax, at most.

thats basically no tax and given that a lot of part time workers as well as full time workers earn 30k or less, there are a lot of workers who arent really contributing to the tax take.

what percentage of workers, full and part time, earn 30k or less?

i'd imagine its close to 50%, given that over 1 in 4 of the work force is part time.

Therefore, half of the workforce is paying no, or very little, income tax.

Tax credits could be used yes, but then they should be raised for everyone, not just the low paid.

There are plenty of middle income earners struggling because they dont get medical cards, fuel allowances, HAP assistance etc.

These people are paying through the nose for everything but getting none of the benefits.

Hopefully any govt tax reduction measures will benefit everyone, not just the low paid.