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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans lifted - see OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Yeah, that's what Bailey described. She may have made a fatal mistake opening the door to Bailey and after a verbal argument and then physical, she ran off screaming, Bailey couldn't calm her down and lost it, he had to finish her off.

    This is the version of events described by Bailey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    You're right. None of us here know or are experts in all this. The French system could have got it wrong but so could the Irish system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    And Alfie and Shirley didn't hear a thing, nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭moceri


    Where is the blood spattered gate?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Again, we're not in court, we're not investigating this case, we're not involved. We're just giving our opinions.

    It was Josie's opinion that it was a local man who had a crush on Sophie. This fits with the Bailey statement. I'm not going to put Bailey in handcuffs, don't worry. I'm just stating that this is another factor in showing why Bailey is the number 1 suspect.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    I'd say they always felt bad about that. If they had heard something they could have done something to help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,300 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Go 100 yards from your house in the middle of the night when you know people in your house are asleep.

    Make a racket, shout, scream for a minute.

    See do you wake them up.

    I'd bet you don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Maybe in a City or Town where that happens often. Not in the countryside at least around here it would certainly attract attention..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    It's hardly accurate to say that the Irish DPP is part of the pro Bailey faction. You are clutching at straws in your last few posts. I see now that you think the Irish DPP is incompetent. Have you read the DPP breakdown of the evidence that was posted earlier in this thread? It doesn't look like the DPP is in any way incompetent.

    If I find it, I'll post it again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Odd though that Alfie didn’t hear Shirley scream or the car horn blaring, and he was awake and up and about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    What are you talking about? I said the DPP could be incompetent, same as the French authorities. None of us know! You're letting your bias conclude that the DPP know what they're doing and the French authorities don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,845 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I outlined a specific scenario - the one outlined by AGS. I asked for an example matching that scenario.

    Noted you are unable to. Nor has anyone else on the thread. This speaks volumes that this is not a "likely" scenario for murder. Could it have happened that way with Bailey or AN other as perpetrator. Yes. But it's clear we are not in "likely" territory.

    If it's just some man randomly murdering women that's bringing in serial killer territory. It's not the scenario you outlined for Bailey and don't pretend otherwise.

    So less of the obvious deflections like "are you serious" when it's obvious you have to dramatically shift the goalposts from post to post.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Anyone who has lived in the country side would know that it's not odd at all that you don't hear everything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Here, set aside 20 or 30 minutes and read this. It looks at each piece of evidence against Bailey and either rules it in or out. It looks pretty sure to me that the DPP know what they are doing. They've looked at the evidence in detail, have proof that they looked at it in detail, and ruled that it is sh1te (mostly).




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    You want an example of a murder identical to this one? Oh no, you've got me, I don't know if a murder exactly like this one. What sort of nonsense are you spouting?

    Aisling Murphy was killed going for a jog, I can't think of another case where that happened so maybe it wasn't the suspect they arrested?

    The scenario I mentioned for Bailey was taken from a statement he made! I didn't just make it up. That's the most likely scenario. Even local people thought the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,845 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Was Sophie killed going for a jog? Nope. Relevance - ZERO.

    So nope, you don't have a scenario matching the AGS outline of this one.

    The rest of your post includes the obligatory shout of "nonsense" to deflect attention away from the fact you couldn't actually answer the question.

    And also taking as fact that Bailey made a statement when you don't actually know that, or the full context of the conversation.

    My point stands and you've provided exactly zero evidence to contradict it - this is not a "likely" scenario for murder.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    I've read it before. The French authorities looked at the same evidence and found that it was not sh1te. You're letting your bias make your mind up for you. The truth is that none of us know who is right or wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    No, the French were handed selective evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    I did answer the question. I'm just saying that your question was ridiculous. I don't know of a murder identical to Sophie's, same as I don't know of a murder identical to Aisling Murphy's.

    Can you give me an example of a scenario matching what AGS outlined for Aisling Murphy's killing? No. So they must have the wrong suspect arrested. That is just a mental leap.

    The scenario Bailey outlined is very plausible and far more likely than some of the Hollywood scripts people are inventing. Local people even think it's the most likely scenario and that was before knowing of Bailey stating that he did it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭chooseusername




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,845 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    How is it a ridiculous question? You outlined it as a "likely" scenario for murder.

    If it's a likely scenario for murder then the broad pattern of the murder should have cropped up again and again. But apparently it has not.

    We see random attacks by serial killers. We see robberies or attempted sexual assaults leading to murder. We see husbands knocking off wives to be with mistresses or vice versa / and or to avoid expensive divorces \ claim life insurance - sometimes using hitmen (more so in the US). We see women being attacked while alone walking home. We see witnesses disappeared.

    What you call "Hollywood scripts" seem to have actually come up far more often than what you think is "likely". So your statement about what is "likely" is based on nothing, it is without foundation. What local people think "likely" simply speaks to their ignorance of crimes rather than what is actually likely.

    We don't see the pattern outlined for this murder coming up.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I'm no more biased than you are. But there's evidence for my thinking. The DPP's summary shows the weaknesses in the evidence.

    I don't know if Bailey killed Sophie or not. But I do know, from reading the DPP's summary of the evidence against Bailey, is that the evidence doesn't stand up to robust scrutiny. It doesn't even stand up to mild scrutiny. The fact that the French used that same sh1te evidence and found that it wasn't sh1te leads me to believe that the French judicial system is far inferior to ours.

    Anyway, I've a life to live. If you believe that evidence isn't sh1te, we've no more to discuss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    It is not a plausible motive. The sexual motive is entirely speculative and there is zero evidence of any kind to support it.

    Sophie's body showed no signs of sexual interference.

    Bailey said a lot of things.....he told a sub editor that "I did it to further my career" His clumsy attempts at black humour cannot be taken literally.

    The DPP described his "admissions" as "sacrastic retorts", "black humour," "sarcastic responses" "of negligible weight" "reeking of sarcasm, not veracity" and the "antithesis of an admission"

    In fact, the way Bailey constantly mouthed off is the exact opposite of how you would expect a guilty man to behave.

    The investigation certainly was flawed. But, more than that, it was prejudiced. Flaws can be brushed under the carpet as mistakes. Prejudice is far more sinister. The only logical conclusion that can be drawn from the conduct of the investigators is that they attempted to frame an innocent man. Fortunately, for Bailey and Irish justice, they were also incompetent in this.

    Had there been one real piece of evidence to link Bailey to the crime, however slim, tenuous or oblique, it would have emerged by now. And it hasn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,300 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Sophie's body showed no signs of sexual interference.

    But that means nothing.

    Just because he went there with a sexual motive it doesn't mean he was able to fulfill that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,856 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The DPP has said there's no evidence to suggest a sexual motive in this crime. I think their words were "pure speculation".

    In fact there is no evidence of a sexual motive in this case. References in the Garda Report to a sexual motive are pure speculation. (taken from the DPP Report).

    It's impossible to prove or disprove that Bailey (or anyone else) went there for a shag. As the DPP said, pure speculation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Of course it means something. It means that the sexual motive theory is entirely speculative. There is no evidence to support it. No evidence of sex or attempted sex.

    You may as well speculate that she was killed as part of some satanic ritual.....there is no evidence to support it.

    The only reason that the sexual motive was mooted was because it was the only possible motive that Bailey could have had. Daniel had financial and personal motive, Bruno had jilted lover motive, Alfie had land dispute motive etc.

    So if Bailey was gulity, sex had to be the motive..........unfortunately for the Gardai, there was no evidence to support it.

    And if sex wasn't the motive...............???



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    You don't know what they were handed? What weren't they handed?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    I didn't outline anything. Bailey did. It was his statement and it's the most plausible theory for this murder. Same as the Aisling Murphy example I gave you. Because it hasn't cropped up again and again, doesn't mean the man arrested is the wrong man.



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