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The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you know is it in anyway possible that the transmitter has some sort of defect that required frequent outages and shortened it's life ? I don't know how RTE could claim a 16yo tx is at end of life when the 1970s tullamore ones were on air 35 years



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    Was it yourself earlier who posted that Transradio went bust a few years ago? Can they get any support on it I wonder? It should be a lot more reliable being solid state though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    I've no firm idea about the TX other than it was reported that a new TX was installed sometime in the mid 00's (2007 would be a fair estimate) whose maximum output power was 300kW and was DRM capable - I remember RTÉ certainly doing DRM tests back in the late 00's at night broadcasting three services as a test, one in HE-AAC and the other two in either in HVXC or CLEP audio (those two codecs are now deprecated in the DRM30 standard). Previously the TX setup there was supposed to be two 250kW units that were combined to give the maximum 500kW daytime output.

    In terms of outages, while I suspect that RTÉ did at least to some extent use this to see roughly how many were still listening to the LW outlet, going off air for maintenance doesn't necessarily mean that its the transmitter that's getting repaired or refurbished, other parts of the transmission chain right up to the radiating mast could be in need for temporary repairs. When France Inter was transmitting from Allouis on 162/164kHz, it regularly went off each week for a few hours in the early hours of Tuesday mornings for maintenance - now that only a time signal is broadcast on this frequency, this maintenance time has now been shifted to more work-friendly hours in Tuesday mid-mornings.

    High powered modern broadcast transmitters usually have a lifespan of around 25-30 years or so, but a longer lifespan can be eeked out if the output is run under at a notably lower power than its maximum rating. The 567 kHz TX at Tullamore ran for about 33 years - according to Irish emigrants in Britain, the power of the TX had definitely been turned down in the last few years of its life, I'd guess it was running closer to 100kW by the time it was announced it was shutting down in 2008. Assuming that the 252 kHz TX at Summerhill has been behaving itself and it still running well without requiring a major refurb to get it back up to running at 300kW again, the fact that's been running at no higher than around 150kW output for a fair few years now should help with the lifespan of its electronics to be useful for a potential resale for another broadcaster that wants to keep their AM service running for at least another 8-10 + years without shelling out for a brand new TX. The fact that it's tuned to 252 kHz isn't much of an issue, it should be easy enough to change the output frequency of it, including medium wave if required.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Antenna


    A couple of contradictory statements from RTE:


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0331/1367393-long-wave/

    "The Summerhill transmitter will be shut down but there are no plans to physically dismantle it."

    but here, one of the reasons for closure stated is:

    https://about.rte.ie/2023/03/31/rte-radio-1-to-cease-broadcasting-on-long-wave/

    "The required investment to maintain the mast is very significant......"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    AFAIK the longwave transmitter in Denmark broadcasting on 243 is funded by their equivalent of the department of rural affairs rather than the public service broadcaster DR. RTE 252 would have closed over 10 years ago if it wasn't for high profile people at the time expressing concerns for elderly Irish in the UK, I think it would have been better if the campaign was for the department of foreign affairs to take over responsibility for the service, excepting RTE to keep it going was like expecting an ex girlfriend to still go on dates. RTE have little interest in catering for elderly people at home let alone in the UK.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    RTE radio is available in the UK without restrictions via Sky/Freesat and internet platforms. They had over 8 years to get prepared. They had their chance now to adopt to something better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭dermo2014


    .

    .



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    To not take the Challenge TV thread further off topic, just a note about Longwave during daylight hours. Any Irish person in mainland Europe could hear RTE during the day with a little effort. There are YouTube clips to prove it, and lots of SDR's. SDR's can be great or really bad. I could hear RTE on ones in Sweden, Germany and France, but most are just horrible noise on 252. But the YouTube videos show that it can also be done on a portable.

    Anyone from Poland can get strong reception in Ireland during the day on 225, and Romanians could suffer poor reception on 153, but it is usable. Algeria and Denmark will be clear after RTE is gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    RTE Radio One is on Sky EPG 0137 and not 0160. I don't know why they got this wrong, they could at least check this out before making announcements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭walterking


    Maybe you could check too

    I know for an absolute fact that in the UK that Rte radio 1 is on Sky 0160.


    Unless it changed since last Sunday



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭StreetLight


    It is on 0137. It changed from 0160 in November 2022.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Does anyone know what percentage of cars on the road today has a radio with LW ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    Simple answer is 0%, new cars anyway, my car is 22 years old and its FM/MW but I'm sure lots of cars have the full AM band.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,890 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The proportion that have LW that actually works over the electrical noise is going to be a fraction of the fraction that claim to have it. I have a single "AM" band on mine that has both but you're never going to tune anything in, unless you're actually in Summerhill looking at the mast.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Mentioning Summerhill, is there anyone in that area with a communications receiver, who could check for harmonics on 504 and 756 kHz?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The closure date of April 14 for RTE 252 is almost exactly 20 years to the day that RTE R1 was first heard on longwave https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/57831/rte-radio-1-on-252-now



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    They've corrected the recorded announcement that goes out every so often. I heard it on the first day and it was read by a woman but it's now a male voice and says 0137.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Does this mast have any potential to be rented out to broadband and mobile phone companies like the Athlone one ? Would it suit 4 & 5g cells ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭webwayz


    Looks like RTE are playing the Climate Change excuse https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/radio/rte-radio-1-to-stop-broadcasting-on-long-wave-over-climate-and-cost-factors-42412461.html a sure sign they are losing the argument that they have to add additional reasons



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah apparently the closure has the full support of Ministers Catherine Martin and Eamon Ryan due to the climate change angle.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    What time on Friday the 14th is LW252 closing down?



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 letovo3275


    Who are they losing the argument with? doesn't seem like anyone cares that 252 closing.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If the Seanad was sitting this week, you'd have a load of misinformed senators saying that the upcoming closure of "Atlantic 252" wss an attack on the elderly https://mobile.twitter.com/EndaOKane/status/1367592325216563201



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 letovo3275




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Déjà vu. A new petition has been launched calling for RTE/the department to "postpone" the closure of 252. I remember when RTE first announced it's closure about 10 years ago, a spokesperson for the campaign said at the time they would be happy if it continued for just 5 more years https://www.change.org/p/don-t-cut-off-the-irish-in-britain-postpone-rte-s-longwave-252-shutdown



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,404 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    At some point people need to start giving "the elderly" some credit. If they want to listen to rte they have options with sky, virgin, freesat and smart speakers/wireless radios. My parents are in their 70s, i have aunts/uncles in their 80s. They are well able to use any of those services.



  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    I'd be more in favour if they kept 567khz, but no amount of pressure was going to tell RTE to keep MW on.

    And this time nothing is going to persuade RTE to keep LW going any longer either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    As I mentioned in a similar thread to this in the Radio sub-forum...

    "If any other Irish public body or semi-state enterprise was found to be spending €250k - 400k per year to serve a small amount of refusniks with a service that was already being provided to them via several other alternative methods then it would quite rightly in 99%+ of cases be seen as an obscene waste of money that could be put to far better use."

    IMO it would be far better for Irish community groups in GB to get self-organised into helping get things set up for those whom either don't have any alternative method to listen to RTÉ Radio 1 at present in their home and have no easy means to makes such changes themselves. Pretty much every other foreign group of nationalities in Britain have in recent years had to deal with their domestic stations from home not being available on MW or LW and thus unlistenable other than via satellite or internet, not to mention that Irish emigrants that left to go much further away than Britain never got such a similar link to home. Perhaps maybe ask the Dept. for Foreign Affairs for possible monetary assistance to help with such people (would almost certainly cost just a fraction of keeping 252 on for even just another year)? As others have mentioned, the vast majority of elderly persons can adapt to new technology where their wants change paths, for example my own father is very much a technophobe but has in the last couple of years got himself an Android smartphone so he can stream live horse racing from Paddy Power's app!

    Other than that, I remember here back in 2012 with the TV Digital Switch Over/Analogue Switch Off complaints from some people that had reception difficulties that meant that they relied on the likes of self-help schemes which were analogue only and had no DTT replacement, saying that they should have allowed for these analogue transmitters to continue in the short-term. Back then I made the point that the DSO/ATO had been (reasonably) well publicised quite well in advance, that there was a firm date for an analogue switch off** and that if a temporary stay on the likes of self-help schemes not bothering to update to digital was to be granted, you'd end up with a camel's nose scenario whereby any time a potential switch-off date was coming up, there would be ongoing pleas for "just another while". Thankfully, no dice was had with that idea, the government stuck to its guns. We've had something similar go along these lines with 252 - it has been on death row now for several years, everyone knew it was a a dead man walking. The time has come to say "unless you're going to get someone to pay the 'leccy bill, that's it". Quite often it takes an abrupt change to make people having to get outside of their comfort zone.


    ** Ironically some analogue transmissions remained for "deflector" licences that carried UK channels that still remained in a few isolated spots of the country post DSO/ATO, but these were switched off for good by the end of 2102 when these licences expired.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Mickey Mike


    Another week and its curtains down on LW252, Rest assure it won't stop there, give it 10 years or so a FM switch off will be banging about once any amount of momentum gets going. The BBC will get that ball rolling along with Switzerland. This will be the total death nail in radios as far as I'm concerned.

    But we're grand for now.



This discussion has been closed.
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