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RTE radio1 LW

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Should/will RTE do a collage of 34 years of broadcasting on LW 252 in the last hour to finish things off ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I think you're right actually. I've passed it several times on the M6 and there's definitely stuff on there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 Gold7


    Good ideaThey should have all the old Atlantic 252 jingles in the last hour of 252,



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    D1xNUlHXgAAqb11.jpeg

    RTE do come across pretty mean spirited to ignore these listeners



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭walterking


    Are you saying that Irish people in the UK do not have smartphones, Freesat , sky TV or PC's and that they live in some strange world where poor quality long wave radio is a "life or death" issue?



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  • In this day and age most older folks can handle phones, tablets and apps and for those who prefer not to there are excellent physical internet radios and smart speakers that will respond to simple voice commands.

    The argument for LW to serve UK listeners are thin, low fi and often VERY crackly.

    RTE should more heavily promote that they’re available free of charge on FreeSat rather than implying they’re only on pay TV platforms like Sky and Virgin.

    RTE R1 is on 750

    2FM on 751

    LyricFM on 752

    Raidió na Gaeltachta ar 753.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭SPDUB


    there are excellent physical internet radios and smart speakers that will respond to simple voice commands


    People have been reporting issues with smart speakers in the last few weeks and I notice that the RTE feeds on radiofeeds.net are not working today



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    No date (so it could have been this weekend or a decade ago) & no other context other than it's a "save 252" campaign involving 15 people with banners & placards?

    Listeners in GB have been warned now for over a decade the 252 kHz transmitter would eventually be switched off, and that they should in the long term seek to use the alternative methods available to them to listen to the station, namely via satellite, cable or internet. Satellite is essentially FTA in every way to terrestrial radio for home/fixed use, while in the past decade LTE networks that can handle capacity for audio streams better than UTMS & GSM ever could is available in all but the very remotest of Britain, with mobile data costs never being cheaper. If you're a cable subscriber to Virgin Media UK, RTÉ Radio 1 is on the EPG.

    If any other Irish public body or semi-state enterprise was found to be spending €250k - 400k per year to serve a small amount of refusniks with a service that was already being provided to them via several other alternative methods then it would quite rightly in 99%+ of cases be seen as an obscene waste of money that could be put to far better use.

    As a couple of examples, I live in a rural part of Co. Tyrone, I'm reasonably fortunate that I'm served by most of the UK national broadcasting networks (or Ni sub-region of such a network), however I am missed out on in a few areas, notably that neither the SDN DAB ensemble or Classic FM is broadcast from Brougher Mountain - I'm able to get a somewhat secondary "fringe" service of Classic FM (not that I'm a listener) but if I wanted to listen to any of the stations on the SDN ensemble, I have to rely on internet streaming. C'est la vie.

    Additionally, I remember around 30 years ago, after the first Gulf War and the success of temporarily transforming BBC Radio 4's FM network into a rolling radio news channel (nicknamed "SCUD FM") there were plans by the BBC to roll out a permanent rolling radio news network using the Radio 4 LW/MW network that was strongly resisted by British emigrants in continental Europe at the time, for whom listening to 198 kHz was (outside of the BBC World Service) their only link to domestic radio back home. Those plans fell by the wayside (though it did strongly influence the programming for "BBC 5 Live" when it was rebranded from BBC Radio 5) but shortly after Radio 4 became available via satellite (analogue at first) and then later on with internet radio, pretty much the same level of availability as those wanting to hear RTÉ Radio 1 in GB, and such listeners adapted to new platform that provided them with interference-free listening. When the BBC Radio services moved from a pan-European beam at 28 degrees east to the UK spot beam a number of years back (this was when the BBC severely curtailed their Red Button streams), it was a case for those unable to receive the stations in the spot beam to grin & bear it and having to move to internet streams to continue listening. When the 198 kHz transmissions essentially cease for good at some point in the future, you'll at best barely hear a murmur from Britions on continental Europe about its shutdown, as even quite elderly British pensioners that retired to the likes of rural France know how to access BBC services where they are. Something very similar goes for MW/LW shutdowns elsewhere in Europe - for example plenty of Francophones in Belgium & Switzerland listened to the French radio networks of France Inter, RTL, Europe 1 etc. where FM reception of such stations wasn't available to them, but they had to grin & bear it.

    I suspect that the upcoming PTSN switch offs involving Open Eir (ROI) & Openreach (UK) will see a similarly very small but very stubborn element refusnikism, in refusing to accept having to change their landline phone service to VoIP provision simply because what they currently have "works" and don't want to give it up even where service providers are helping them to make the transfer over as seamless as possible. Some comments on the interwebs are convinced that they (Open Eir or Openreach) can't switch off their PSTN service if they say they want to remain on it - well, they can switch it off, they will (if not at first, eventually) and the refusniks will simply have a dead line if they stick with that attitude - and they can't say that they weren't warned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭SPDUB


    Have EIR actually said they are closing the old network for phones?

    I know it has been announced for the UK but I hadn't heard anything about EIR



  • Posts: 317 [Deleted User]


    The reg plate on the lorry cab in that photo is from 2018 so it could have been taken anything up to half a decade ago.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    Open Eir have announced a "copper switch off programme". Essentially by no longer using their metallic lines, all customers will be served by optical fibre instead and thus the PSTN network also ceases.

    https://www.openeir.ie/copper-switch-off/

    Openreach OTOH almost certainly won't get all of their current lines converted to optical fibre by the end of 2025, but they're still going to retire their PSTN - in areas where customers are still only served by a metallic line by that point they can still do broadband via VDSL or ADSL where available but all "landline" calls will either be done via a "master socket" on the modem/router or through the use of an ATA connected to it, with line conversion to optical fibre being done at some point in the future.

    Post edited by TAFKAlawhec on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭Tork


    It'd be ironic if the people in that photo took their smartphones out of their pockets and made noises about the closure on social media...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    To me LW is already history. I wouldn't consider buying a LW radio anymore, that is if I would find one new for a reasonable price. It's just uncertain how long the LW transmitters will be on air. And 252 had a bit too much of downtime in recent months as well.

    People didn't complain that much when analogue TV was switched off in favour of digital, - so why bother with an even older radio technology in the internet and smartphone age?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Roberts R9993 seems to be the only radio with LW that's still widely available in the shops



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭Tork


    People like to give out and trot out extreme cases. Paddy who's 95 and living in a bedsit after a lifetime of building the roads lives for Joe Duffy in the afternoon on the wireless. In reality, the vast majority of elderly people have long since moved over to other ways to hear RTE if that's what they want. I know very few elderly people who don't have a smartphone or a tablet. They mightn't be power users of their devices but they're able to use the bits they want. Recently I found out that my 80-year-old uncle in the UK was now listening avidly to Irish local radio stations because he'd found some app. These people are not helpless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I think Argos also had a radio with LW, both in black as well as in white on sale a while ago?



  • Posts: 317 [Deleted User]


    @tinytobe I believe you're referring to the Roberts model, which is as far as I am aware the only consumer-grade LW-compatible radio you can buy nowadays. I was told by someone in the know that that model is no longer in production & that retailers are just selling off existing inventory. I don't know whether or not that's actually true.

    The more expensive multi-band receivers from the likes of Tecsun are able to tune to LW frequencies, as are professional grade comms receivers from Kenwood, Icom & so on but I can't see anyone justifying spending that kind of money with the sole purpose of listening to the LW band (not that there's much left there to listen to). The latter in particular are not exactly intuitive to use for people who are not technical. TV boxes & apps are probably more user-friendly.

    When I bought a radio almost 30 years ago it had to have LW. The most recent radio I purchased last year was my Tecsun R-9012. I don't consider the lack of a LW function to be a shortcoming.





  • This is very tangential to LW radio, but I’ll explain:

    OpenEir have already quietly withdrawn most of the old Ericsson and Alcatel exchanges from the phone network. They’re being rapidly replaced by Nokia VoIP MSANs and soft switches. That project is a well under way, and due to be complete by the end of 2023.

    If you still have a copper landline, you will still get a dial tone and a PSTN like service, but it’s now VoIP based. New connections will be VoIP over broadband only (without the copper wires and dial tones.) They’ll shrink the copper network and then eventually withdraw the MSANs.

    That’s why you’re seeing warnings about alarm monitoring, which uses old analogue modems, becoming potentially unreliable as VoIP audio encoding sounds nice to human ears, but modems were designed for old A-log companding 8 kHz sampling, digital circuit switching and time division multiplexing.

    This (aimed at the alarm industry) explains it in detail : https://www.g4s.com/en-ie/-/media/g4s/unitedkingdom/files/roi_pstn_switchover_presentation__final.ashx?la=en&hash=A93A712AFD337B849D761659636BD261

    That’s another technology that’s quietly vanishing into the history books.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭ford fiesta


    It is time to get the tape recorders out, RTE radio stations will never be heard on AM radio again



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Here's an interesting what if, IF RTE had agreed to lease 252 to another UK broadcaster in 2002, (8 were interested according to media reports at the time) would 567 still be on air ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,614 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    What is not mentioned often, is why ex-pats in GB would not be entitled to the full output of RTE. Which would require more long wave transmitters. Or why our ex-pats in America and elsewhere were not entitled to the same. As mentioned in another post, anyone anywhere can now enjoy LMFM or Lyric or whatever other stations they want. Not by radio transmissions, but the other methods which were mostly not available before.

    Geography means that 567 from Athlone/Tullamore, and 252 from Summerhill, have a certain footprint in GB and NI. But neither were satisfactory, even for full coverage of the island of Ireland. The people in London should have the same expectation for a useable service from RTE as what was available in Manchester. But they never got it. It would be a personal dereliction of duty for an Irish person in GB to have relied totally on long wave in recent years, and not equipped themselves with other technologies. If only to consume other Irish content not being transmitted on 252, such as local radio from their home county.

    Post edited by dxhound2005 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I'm not sure if I said this earlier or not but I always found it strange that 567 was abandoned in favour of 252. Any coverage improvement in the UK was surely negated by the reduced power level compared to Atlantic 252. Even before the transmitter replacement RTE were still broadcasting Radio 1 at reduced power. The only thing I can think of (but I could be venturing into conspiracy territory here so I apologise if so) is if the local opposition to the construction of the site may have had something to do with it, as in, would they have been compelled to demolish it if left unused?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    Most of the modern portable radios with the LW band on them produced in the last 10-15 years from Chinese brands like Tecsun are known for not having good LW performance. The XHDATA D-808 I have is notoriously deaf on the LW band - 252 kHz comes in okay, but BBC R4 on 198 kHz is barely listenable! I think it is down to the lack of a dedicated LW receiving coil on the ferrite rod aerial inside the radio causing such issues, falling back on to the single coil designed for MW reception on the ferrite rod. The best radio I have in my home for LW reception is a Grundig Ocean Boy 330 portable that I got back in the mid-90's, back in an era when LW reception in many parts of Europe still mattered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    I've no firm evidence for this, but I remember back in the mid-00's hearing from some Irish people in England that reception of 567 kHz in many parts of England was not as good as it once was, suggesting that the power at Tullamore had been turned down from its potential peak of 500kW. At the time I could see RTÉ's reasoning for closing down their MW outlets for Radio 1, there was really no point in duplicating the service on both MW & LW when both would cover the island of Ireland, and that the LW signal had the capability to travel farther where things like ground conductivity and radiated power are the same (or at least very similar). 252 kHz also allowed the station to reach London & SE England better than 567 kHz could, as the latter had for around a couple of decades been interfered with by a local station in London on 558 kHz - reception of 252 kHz still wasn't brilliant, but with a decent receiver it was usually listenable. Meanwhile closer to home, Radio 1's FM network would have largely been seen as "complete" alongside additional methods of listening to the station being available - there might have been an arguable case of retaining the 729 kHz transmitter in Cork after Tullamore's shut down on the basis of co-channel interference on 252 kHz from Algeria, but I'd guess that the spots in 729's core coverage area that didn't have at least a listenable FM signal (if any) were likely not justifiable enough to keep the MW TX there going.

    Ironically on the flip side, the closure of RTÉ Radio 1 on 252 kHz will be welcomed by a lot of Algerian immigrants in northern France, for whom receiving Algeria Channel 3 on the same frequency is often hampered by RTÉ being a pest for them.





  • RTE should just run a major campaign on LW during the ad breaks giving a serious 'how to' guide for people who wish to listen in the UK, and it should focus on the free options i.e. FreeSat channel numbers and how to tune in online via various apps and websites.

    Obviously they should mention Sky and Virigin too but there's a false impression being created that you have to get a pay tv subscription to receive RTE Radio in the UK. You don't and it's quite possible to tune it in without any extra equipment other than an old Sky dish, if your TV (as many do) contains a satellite tuner or you can pick up a Freesat compatible STB pretty cheaply for a basic one.

    They should also stress that the audio quality is VASTLY better than LW.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The 252 was a usable service for Atlantic 252 as well as the RTE until they reduced the power of the transmitter. Then the signal was abysmal in London, and even worse at night time in Kent and on the South coast of England. Especially at night time Algeria dominated on 252.

    The last radios actively marketed for LW in the UK focused on Cricket fans and the fact that BBC Radio 4 would cover Cricket live. That was a while ago, ever since that time, there is no active marketing for LW in the UK anymore.

    The Tecsun is sadly known for being deaf in many ways, plus the FM band is not very sensitive either. Not a good radio to recommend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120094256/#Comment_120094256

    Taken from the thread in the Terrestrial forum, the 2003 All Ireland hurling final was the last time Clarkstown/Summerhill ran at full power.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's pretty anoraky that RTE will cease broadcasting on LW almost exactly 20 years to the day that they were first heard there


    https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/57831/rte-radio-1-on-252-now



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Regarding the historical reception of RTE Radio 1 on 567 Khz in London :

    There was certainly a time when it was a reliable receiving option in London, but back in the mid 1980's, it suffered splatter from the offshore pirate station Laser 558, operating beside it on 558 khz. The UK Government cited the 'interference' caused to RTE as one of the reasons for taking action against Laser and Radio Caroline. When Laser closed in 1985, Radio Caroline changed frequency from 963 Khz to 558 and the reception problems for RTE continued, as did the 'concerns' expressed by the UK Department of Trade and Industry.

    Ironically then, in 1990, the UK Radio Authority, issued a licence to a new multi-ethnic service, Spectrum Radio, to operate in the London area ... on 558 Khz, so causing a greater degree of interference to local RTE reception than had previously been caused by the offshore pirate stations.

    Since 2000, the ethnic station Punjab Radio has been operating on 558 Khz in the London area.

    Did the London reception situation form any consideration in favouring Long Wave for diaspora servicing over the more crowded Medium Wave band?



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