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There's a reason why this generation is "worse off" than their parents

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  • 01-04-2023 11:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭


    I'm referring of course to the Prime Time segment about Holly Carins remarks on her generation being worse than that of their folks. The segment went on to regurgitate the usual sound bites & interviews in the street malarkey:

    "I have a good job and cant buy a house", "I went to college and cant buy a house", "I done everything right and I cant buy a house". Lisa Chambers didn't stand a chance trying to make her point with this nonsense in the background. This blame the government noise is getting so old now, cant open a newspaper, listen to the radio or watch TV without hearing about the gripes of this generation. Its always someone else's fault, banks, cuckoo funds, government, builders, landlords.

    Society does not revolve around these people and only have themselves to blame, at least in part, for not owning their own home. Ive said it before, If you choose:

    -To spend 4-6 yrs in college for a bullsh1t degree

    -Change your car every couple of years/ avail of PCP

    -Multiple holidays & city breaks each year,

    -Load up on the latest tech & fashion,

    -Travel the world for amazing experiences,

    -shag of to Australia for 2-4 yrs.

    -Become an influencer

    Then don't be surprised if you have little to no savings or prospects down the road. Previous generations did not generally delay themselves with these sorts of choices. A house isn't something you can just have on a whim, its takes a lot of planning, saving and sacrifice. Its always seems to be someone else's fault, banks, cuckoo funds, government, builders, landlords.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    Bring back the days when a man could build his own home and support his wife to rear the kids as a stay-at-home mum. It worked. But from the government's point of view they wanted to turn the average family from a one taxpayer model to three.

    Husband working - tax

    Wife working - more tax

    Childminder working - even more tax

    For all that tax that's going in, you'd suspect life is getting better. It's not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,100 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Yawn...

    We're probably onto our second generation of people who are dealing with a completely broken housing market and people are still coming out with this sh*te



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭passatman86


    Im 99% sure my grandfathers paid 5,500 and 7,000 for their houses around 45 years ago.both within a mile of each other in Dublin. The 5,500 house was 500 pound extra because it was a corner house with enough space in the side garden to eventually build another house.

    Compare those mortgages on around 120 pound a week to today's wages and house price's



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,451 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,710 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Before I even opened the thread I knew it would be this horseshít.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭eggy81


    10 times the wages or less vs 80-100 times the mortgage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    in the last three months of 1978, the average gross price of a house in Dublin was £22,300

    They got a bargain. I'm sure people these days wouldn't complain either about getting a house for 25% of the market rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Agreed that the housing market here is completely broken for some time now. People who never made any of the financial mistakes listed in the opening post still have very little hope of owning their own home and it is not just a recent feature of the Irish economy. Houses here do not need to be as expensive as they are, but while paying lip service to the idea that something should be done, the politicians in power here have done nothing substantial to reduce the cost of housing and the politicians in the opposition parties have made themselves sound so naive about economics that no one in their right mind would want to vote for them to take control of the country's finances.

    FF/FG/Greens stand for maintaining house prices to secure the financial security for their home owning voter base and have no interest in reducing taxation on housing or reduce regulations on housing to allow a better free market develop to bring prices down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    45 years ago, 1978, average house price in Dublin was £22,300 according to https://www.rte.ie/archives/2019/0518/1049114-upward-trend-in-house-prices/

    In the same year the average nominal weekly earnings were €90.47 or £71.23 according to




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    So as the poster states, compare that to today's wages and house prices.

    It be like paying 170% of your wages on your mortgage on a house you got for 25% of the market price.

    So a mortgage of €1156 a week on a house you got for like €110k?

    Each comparison is terrible.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,100 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    This has been debated to death.

    Yes, housing has always been expensive.

    Yes, people have always needed to make sacrifices.

    So why is home ownership so much more difficult now, as seen in the falling rates of home ownership? You can only get so far blaming avocado toast.


    Even by your calculation above, the average house was x5 the average salary. Now it's x8, while the lending limits mean you NEED a couple on at least average salary to max out a mortgage to buy an average house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,301 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    The housing market is broken, particularly the rental market, no doubt, but the house price to income figures aren't as stark as portrayed in that post. Factor in household income and interest rates, there's probably not much difference in 45 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,277 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    In terms of houses, yes, the current generation is worse off - but that's more of a supply/demand issue.

    In other terms, no. I think people have a bit more disposable 'real' income. Flights and holidays are cheaper now because of Ryanair type flights. There is a much wider range of items on offer thanks to sites like Amazon and can be purchased for a few clicks. The things mentioned in the OP with regard to world travel - well, those are options now. Some people do them, don';t have much money, but sometimes they're happy that way.

    That said, if you've a fmaily with kids, it's probably not that easy to be fair. I don't, so can't speak for that particular demographic.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭emo72


    As a person who won the buy a home lottery (bought house in early 90s) I should be loving it. But I'm not. There should be a revolution. Occupation of the Oireachtas and dept of finance. Just tear it all down. Make the state stop functioning. I've everything to lose, can't understand why the current generation accept this? It's madness.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People who haven't gone travelling/to Australia for a few years/haven't wasted money on trivialities/have saved/have a practical degree... aren't able to afford a mortgage. You can't compare house prices today with those of the '80s/'90s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭Get Real


    I'll start by saying I agree the housing situation is disgraceful at the moment

    However, and it's a big however, I absolutely get some points in the OP. It may not be popular to say, but there are some truths to be spelled out to the current generation looking to buy (my generation)

    We're in a weird situation now where some of the most privileged people are looking to vote for a range of parties that couldn't be further from their view or the background they came from.

    I'm from the generation that protested the water charges and college fees. And despised "the man". Not that long ago in the grand scheme of things.

    One particular girl in my course stands out. Very wealthy parents, was a 40 min commute to college from her family home. Never worked a part time job, had an apartment paid for so she wouldn't have to commute and a generous weekly allowance.

    This now early 30s woman a social media activist for people before profit, Sinn Fein, Paul Murphy et al. The type she is, would gladly sh1t on a retail worker no problem, yet is supportive of the same parties of those she has no respect or regard for.

    Also, I think back in 2011,2012 and so on, people were renting 3 bed apartments in Dublin for about 900quid, within 20mins of Dublin city centre. They made a decision that "renting is the new way". When it never was really. 2014 came along, they held out, 2015, held off. 2016 and so on. The tide didn't turn for them, it just got higher.

    Now, more than a decade on since the crash, it also appears, there's a huge lack of savings among those in their 30s. Even if you were working in Maccy D's in 2011, a box room was 250-300quid a month. You're telling me you couldn't put away 50quid a week for the past decade plus? 25k savings, multiplied by 2 for a couple, a 50k deposit.

    I don't get it. And I'll be slated for it. I understand the frustration and it is an absolute farce of a situation, everyone at all levels should have access to affordable housing.

    But I can't help but think, a huge amount of people, through various choices they made, can't access the market. Financial decisions or a lack of financial decisions taken in the past have led to here. I can't understand how some single people with median income like myself can buy a place, but couples on a combined income can't.

    I can only assume it's due to past financial decisions. I know that's harsh, but people love to lay the blame elsewhere. And a large amount of the blame does lay elsewhere. But (harshly) I'm thinking there's an element of personal responsibility too.



  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Going through some papers belonging to my Dad this week I found the letter from his employer in 1967 confirming their mortgage to him of £5000 for a house in Foxrock.

    So that tallies with your estimation.

    Obviously there have been changes in building regulations over that time which have made properties more expensive, even ignoring improvements for fighting climate change, there really should be a cheap option for buying a house. Four walls and a roof that meets building codes and is affordable. No it doesn't have super duper insulation so yes it will be cold in Winter - thats why it's the cheap option. In the current property climate, the cheap option, is not cheap, it's the least expensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Insulation is relatively easy to add at the construction stage and it will pay for itself in a few years. Fortunately, building regs now require proper insulation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    The only thing your post was missing was buying coffee daily. Misery guts



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,203 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Every country in Europe has a housing shortage to some extent. What sets Ireland apart is this fixation on owning a house. Nobody in Ireland is interested in solving the housing crisis unless they get to own a house and that just isn’t going to work. We, indeed the whole Anglo sphere, have spent decades proving that a housing policy based on people taking on huge amounts amounts of debt or relying on social services to put a roof over peoples heads does not work and it never will. Probably about 40% or more should not own a house, but there is going to have to be an awful lot more pain before people are willing to look at housing solutions that don’t involve them getting to own a property.

    Most of the complaints here come from chasing an unrealistic dream. The developers did a great job in convincing people that renting is dead money and the property ownership is the only way to go. The reality is that paying rent is no different to many of the other services you pay for and financial speaking property ownership is a high risk investment that often result in the owners getting wiped out as we have seen.

    Abandon the dream of house ownership, develop a proper rental market and the problem goes away for most people. Austria, Germany and Switzerland all have very high standards of living without requiring home ownership. I live in Switzerland where people have very little interest in property ownership - it’s a high risk financial decision and why in heavens name would you spend decades paying for over capacity? Here people just rent according to their needs - young couples and older people rent smaller places, early retirees often move to the country to enjoy life, moving back later if the need to be near medical services arise. It is a lot easier manage a financial crisis if your biggest financial commitment is a couple of months rent and all interest rates increases means is your getting paid more on your savings.

    I know it not going to be at all popular and people will come with all kinds of reasons to continue the dream, but eventually when the pain is sufficient, they will be willing to look at more realistic solutions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Out of interest, did any of those countries transition from a predominantly preferred house ownership model to predominantly preferred house rental one? I suspect that change of mindset would be difficult to achieve and is only possible if the population never saw ownership as an aspiration.


    I don’t agree on all points with the op, I do however think there is a sense of entitlement to be found in younger people today that was not there with older generations. I really don’t see why having a college degree, or a job should mean that you should be able to buy the house you want, where you want. Everyone knows there is a shortage, and that higher earners can generally outbid lower ones for limited stock, that is the way markets have always worked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,324 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    There is definitely some truth in the OPs points.


    Look at all the consumerism and goodies we have access to nowadays compared to our parents.

    My folks saved borrowed and worked constantly to get a deposit and mortgage.

    They had no couch when they eventually got a house and basically ate beans and toast until they could afford proper cooking facilities.


    The housing situation is messed up but it’s unfair to not acknowledge that our parents generation had to make huge sacrifices to own a home and they definitely didn’t have a lot of the goodies we take for granted nowadays.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,082 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    In my day/bludy kids these days/something something and their smashed avocado on toast.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭francois


    Anyone blamed woke kids yet?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,542 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    There might be a small bit of that but lets not paint and entire generation/class of people with the same brush.


    Ultimately there aren't enough houses in the country for all the people that are in the country either for rent or for sale. Those that are there are ridiculously priced in rent and sale price because of this and other factors. Ultimately they the pricing is something outside the control of the people wanting to rent or buy.

    As you've said the ability of the individual to pay that pricing can ultimately be effected by some of the things you've mentioned but I don't think it is unfair for people to expect that they have the ability to buy/rent a house for their future and realisticilly the prices of this is out of their control.

    Wages simply haven't kept up with house/rental price inflation.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,434 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Take 1995 as an arbitrary year

    Average house price across the country was €78k. Average industrial wage was €20k. That's a ratio of 3.92.

    In 2023 the average house price is €309k. The average industrial wage is €45k. That's a ratio of 6.87

    Government policy over the last 30 years has led to this. Not holidays, shopping, consuming etc.

    This is the singular biggest reason we have 30 somethings still living at home with their parents in 2023. Government housing policy has failed so miserable that we are now in they midst of a total crisis



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    I think it is also what existing house owners want (to a degree anyway). Any solution that impacted on house values would cause major anger.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    There are too many reasons to list as to why the conditions in 1995 have no relevance today.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,434 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    As we saw in 2008, it's not just government policy that can influence house values. House values had always been a fluctuating asset, but one which really only affect speculative investors, not owners ie if you sell low, you buy low.

    House values to long term owners isn't really an issue at all



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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,434 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    As I clearly said, it's an arbitrary year

    However there's a very, very obvious trend upwards in that ratio since the end of the 80s. That's undeniable. And if anything the rate of difference is increasing



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