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Dairy Calves 2024

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    Ye sounds so familiar, as straight says some people just want to drag others down..just pay no attention I suppose as best we can, but it does grate the constant remarks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭farmertipp


    there are many out there earning north of 100k and not a word about them or from them steady people. with dairy farmers, if you don't hear how much they are making from a few blowholes in the indo or journal you will hear it from media or teagasc annual report. you'd swear it was unusual to make money. I say that ss a dairy farmer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    The clever ones in other sectors in agriculture (Tillage with 1k's of acres, I'm looking at you.) divide up their empires into separate companies.

    So the above headlines or/and bps publications top earners don't make the print. If can't beat them, join them. Then put the begging bowl out and claim poverty.

    The world is messed up and increasingly going worse by the day.

    Completely by the by on the conversation and topic. Rachel Blackmore had an image of her used in publicity for the cheltenham festival and on betting platforms. She was holding the whip in triumph after a race. The whip was photoshopped out for promotion. Sports promoters were in arms over unrealistic "wokeness" creeping in and the eventual harm this will do to the sport if this continues. The snake eating it's own tail comes to mind.

    The dairy industry here hasn't reached the point yet to call out the unrealistic "wokeness" being imposed. The first few inches of the tail are only after been eaten yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    I agree on that too, these profit monitors shouldn't be let anywhere near a media outlet, only usefull as a comparison tool amongst farmers in a private setting.

    There's a few lads in teagasc and the the media that love talking big numbers about farmers that I can't imagine standing under the dirty end of a cow at 7am on a Sunday morning



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    Profit monitors aren't left anywhere near the media..not in the last 2 or 3 years as far as I can see. Teagasc got a good wrap on the knuckles over breach of confidentiality and misuse of data from a farming source.

    The data being presented publicly is from the National Farm Survey. This data is collected from specified voluntary farms, collected by professional people.

    This farm survey is a requirement of the EU. I've no idea if it goes on in any other profession or industry. I expect it is, or has been, linked to CAP payments and their justification.



  • Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    Fair enough they had enough damage done with them, maybe it is linked to the CAP. I know I've worked for a few privately owned companies and I had no idea what they were making or neither would anybody else



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    You are making a very important point.if there was no export then we are f##ked.i was discussing sexed semen with another farmer the other day and we came to conclusion that you re better off staying with standard semen because the only place for these extra beef bred calves is export.dealers on the other hand.........



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    The is a guy beside me a dealer, nice lad, but you would know he is a trick at the same time. He buy and sells all types of cattle (I would guess he averages 100 head a week) and about half would be for orders. He tells me every animal he buys he has to get €60 on, €10 to buy, €20 haulage, €15 to sell, €5 for overheads like vets, admin work, feed, lad working in the yard & finally €10 for his wages for the two days involved. Now with the online marts you can see whats happening everywhere and its hard to see €60 of a difference between stock in one mart to the next, so I would guess it isn't that easy done.

    I tend not to buy any dealers cattle if I can as the way I look at it is if I can take €30 off his price by doing my own thing isn't it better in my pocket.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    We are all hearing about the dairy farmers getting big milk cheques and I was talking to a guy the other night and we were discussing a large local dairy farmer who gave €600 euro an acre of land but then kicked up stink in the mart recently when his Jex bull calves didn't get a bid. He was telling me the same farmer was recently telling his discussion group that it isn't cents per liter any more, its euro+ per liter.

    This lad getting no bid of his calves doesn't seem to want to accept that for him to get €1+ / liter for his milk, he will need to bear the cost of rearing his jex bull calves until they are salable. Just wounder how much is it really costing to produce 1 liter of milk?

    Post edited by Anto_Meath on


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    The ironic thing this year is the fellas who left the calves off as soon as they could are being rewarded but the fellas that kept them a month or so are being crucified



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,330 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    What’s the reward 🤔🤔But who’s smarter and financially better off and that’s before you talk workload etc ….there’s no issue selling calves from 10/-4 days take it as given and expected no corners cut with colostrum and milk feed on farm of birth …..just get past getting whatever money be it big or small calves make



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭QA1


    rang a lad there near me this morning heard he had calves for sale wanted €150 at home for aa calves from 10 days to 2 weeks old was not buying any this year but was told they are cheap he can keep them what mart would you average €170 in for young aa calves this week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Sold a few out of the yard this week, a lad wanted some to put on cows. 160 for Hereford heifers 3 weeks old and 125 for Angus heifers 2 weeks old. Both of us happy



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    Is this really a good idea?



  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭anthony500_1



    looking at it from a non farming view it makes an even stronger case for the green party to hammer home the agri industry pollution bla bla bla even more.....

    Personally I think for calf welfare if they can trial it and make sure calf welfare is ok, no major issues with calf health etc then it has to be a good thing. Whats better for a calf being in a artic trailer for 4days by road, or in a plane 4 hours.

    I know which way I'd rather travel



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭older by the day


    Imagine if we could get Ryan air to run them over. It would be cheapest of all. Only the calf won't be getting any on board milk on that flight. Seriously it's the way to go. A few hours and they are back inside the shed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,964 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It's probably not economically practical. On a side note even though I am an agnostic on sexed semen I was talking to a large dairy farmer who I know well and he says that Friesians bulls will half within in 3-4 years

    F@@k it for a game of soldiers.

    The flying is only a face saver

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭3 the square


    young aa or he not making much more than fr bull calves sexed semen wont do much for prices



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,330 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Sexed semen ain’t the answer ….just robbing Peter to pay Paul ….most lads I talk to in compact spring scenario are only getting average at best results .flying calves if it can be viable is going to be a game changer …we simply need calf exports to stay and veal units want our calves ….unpalatable and all as it is some form of calf slaughter facility needs to stay too for tb etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Flying will be a non runner due to the cost of chartering the plane and the cost of running a plane, if it was cheap do you not think the shippers in cork and kerry Would be at it already. This is to do with the closing of the lairage in France last week and the minister doing nothing about it. Weak minister. The echo warriors would have a field day with this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,823 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Any word on France? Has it reopened fir Irish calves



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    I’m wondering if the date on the front of the Journal has anything to do with this story?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    I doubt it. Looks to be well researched on capacity figures etc. Near a thousand calves on one flight is not to be sniffed at.

    A couple of hours flight time and done.

    The racehorse and polo fraternity are doing it for forever to more distant destinations and not an eye blinked or word typed about it.

    I'd be 110% behind the move.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,964 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Is the minister supposed to micro manage everything in Agriculture. The lairage was closed by the French authorities.

    I have not seen the reason why. Was it mismanagement of the lairage, is it a french political decision. Was it over calf age condition arriving there

    Calf exports by sea are a hot potato. France is only an intermediate country. I have just done a bit of googling and it seems that there is videos of rough handling of calves circulating on social media.

    Was the minister supposed to go over and unload the calves himself. Mind you if he did which lairage was he supposed to do it at. The second calf lairage is operating ok still for the moment.

    We had an incident last year as well. These lairage need top class management. Something that costs money. Even drivers themselves need reminding that everything they are seen to be doing with these calves needs to be above board

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    All the minister had to do was make contact with the french minister or get his staff to make contact and sort out to get the place open, the minister sits at the same table in Brussels as the french for agriculture. If it was Joe Walsh it would have being done straight away, the drivers on the lorries know the game back to front and most are at it along time. Calves neglected or dead don’t get paid for on arrival. Having brought stock in from Europe and England on numerous occasions, we never had stock arrive in bad health.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    The drivers may have been to fault on this occasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    This airlift of calves is well researched and planned with some time.

    Teagasc had a trial in place over 2 years ago on this and covid or similar interupted.

    Calf health condition including blood tests will be measured before and after travel to assure the health benefits of this transport.

    This could open up huge markets not only for dairy calves but for beef calves also.

    Flight to Netherlands is only an hour, think of the range of countries you can get to in 3 or 4 hours..

    Heard flights going today and tomorrow from an Airport not near Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭straight


    Ignore



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Albert Johnson


    The racing and polo industry are dealing with smaller groups of high value animals so it's not exactly comparing like with like. A single racehorse could exceed the value of 1000 Friesian sucks and the racing job is a multi billion euro industry. I struggle to see how flying large numbers of a low value commodity that requires top class management will prove viable but I was often wrong before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,964 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It happened last week and was closed probably on Friday ( I imagine that they through putted calves already on the boat.

    How do you know the minister and/or his staff were not onto there French counterparts. For the last couple of weeks the French government have been dealing with street protests. I say a lairage closed in Cherbourg is top priority.

    Calf exports is a hot potato, TBF to the French authorities they have put as little impediments in place as possible but politically anything to do with young animals ( and you are dealing with thousands) is a hot potato anyway.

    Again it's not the French minister's job to micro manage an industry. Same as a restaurant if you do not follow the rules you get closed down

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭alps


    You could be right, however road transport is not cheap either. Truck hire for a 3 day trip, 2 lairage stops o the way..surely 50€ per calf dropped along the way..

    800 calves per flight at €50 is €40,000. Would it cover the cost...no idea tbh but big numbers could cover a lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    The trouble that happened was the ferry was delayed due to bad weather and took 22 hours instead of 17 .Then you had a green mep waiting for the ferry to dock so it would make the news .I can not see how Irish or French government can master the weather



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    It would sort the welfare issues and anything that gets livestock out of the country I would see as a good thing for beef prices.

    I doubt it will be a runner on a cost basis though. Chartering a large plane will cost at least 150k to get those 800 calves to Europe. That's before handling on both sides. Will cost at least €200 euro per calf to get them to their destination. It would have to be heavily subsidized somehow.

    Obviously its not a 'green' solution but f*@k 'em, if the aviation industry don't have to meet emissions targets we may as well load 'em up the steps. It might highlight how flawed all this carbon accounting BS is if nothing else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    How is one racehorse worth more than a 1000 calves that are going to feed 10,000 families? I mean when the racehorse is finished it can't even be used as a seat or you'll loose your trainers license for a time. 😁

    This is what the world has come to though. Cows are seen as carbon positive and drilling oil and gas wells. Horses are seen as haute couture and carbon negative and flowers and trees and ladies days follow in their wake. International air travel is recorded as carbon neutral on countries spreadsheets. The farmers with the cows and sheep have been wailing at meetings about airtravel to be told tough sh1t it's the way the negotiations were carried out, get your act together dumbos.

    The activists will continue to target the french lairages. Our own will continue to look for reduced travelling times. The world will continue to only support local farm produce. The world turns. The Sun rises.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Albert Johnson


    I agree that's there's no easy solution and running a business exporting anything by road and ferry isn't for the faint hearted. As for the cost of chartering a plane I wouldn't have a clue either tbh but €40,000 seems a small sum when you consider what's involved. I could be as far out as a lighthouse on that assumption but I'd be afraid the true cost of what would be involved could be just staggering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,964 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    As well as that you are looking at trying to export 150-200k calves in a 5-6 week period. You need to access planes, flight crews. While there might be one plane that will carry 7-800 can you access several planes.

    You are probably looking at 2 hours loading and 2 hours unloading and cleaning cargo area. Give the journey an hour and a half each way. That a 7-8 hour turnaround and allowing no time for a return cargo which loaded and unloaded would add another two hours minimum.

    One plane might do 10k calves a week that two runs a day for the seven days. The larger cargo planes would require four for the duration of the calving season to shift 180 k calves over five weeks. It would take 15ish of the smaller ones and a system in place like the Berlin airlift.

    If it costs 200/ calf that grand let the dairy farmer arrive in the mart with 1k euro with every 6-7 Friesians bull calves. I probably go back to rearing them myself at that

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Albert Johnson


    I don't disagree with anything you've said there and sadly it comes back to the age old life lesson that what should happen and what does happen aren't one and the same.

    I'm fairly certain you know more about the racing job than I do so you don't need me to explain why it is the way it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,964 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It a poor thoroughbred horse that is not worth 30k that is racing. At Goffs yearling sales yearlings make up to a million. This spring a lot of Friesian calves were only making 20-70 per head.

    You would put 20 horses comfortably where you would put 1k calves and the horse will walk on and off the plane

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Know feck all of the racing industry. Well maybe a little.

    On the air travel. There's even hairy piebalds being flown out to the United States from here.

    On the logistics of calves in planes. They'll be loaded in crates and off in crates.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    1000 calves on the one plane. Imagine the bawling. The poor crew would want decent ear muffs. Some whiff of scour too.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    I was on a Ryanair to Faro last year. A couple of big stags and big hen party onboard. It was Bedlam, cabin crew were terrified. A few arrested when we landed. I'd take the 1000 calves any day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Surely they have the sums done on this and know it can work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭straight


    If it costs 200/ calf that grand let the dairy farmer arrive in the mart with 1k euro with every 6-7 Friesians bull calves. I probably go back to rearing them myself at that.


    Na, u still wouldn't be happy. Understand that the meat processors will just knock that thousand euro right off the other end. Primary producers are bottom of the heap, just accept that.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Albert Johnson


    I thought you used to do a bit at the horsey job but maybe I'm mistaken. I didn't know that about them exporting horse's to America but anything is possible. There's a man not far from here sending lots of riding types to the continent but it's all lorries and ferries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,764 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    No you're not mistaken. Area here is rife with thoroughbreds too. A real success story of a job in the area. Farms bought on the success of horses. Fodder imported from France. Roads are red with horseboxes between training days and general purpose trucking. Jim Derwin was a great man up on the way to your country for the exporting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Don't know anything about flying horses or cattle, I know a lad who worked for Coolmore and he used to be on planes flying horses to USA and Australia. I recall him saying they needed to sedate some of them as some would be nervous flyers. There was special planes for it and as far as I know it was only out of Shannon that they would fly. But if a horse was going to the continent then they all went by road and sea as it was only a fraction of the cost plus he would say it wasn't near as stressful on the horse. You would think if the calves were in crates & loaded on and off then in less than 10 hours they were at their final destination that it would be good for them, but I would guess the cost would be astronomical to charter a plane to transport calves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,964 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I think cost will be the barrier as well. Air cargo is really limited to high value JIT transit a lot of the time.

    Loading and unloading will add to the cost. While crating might seem the solution to loading, when you unload you will need to bring a load of crates back again which have to be loaded empty into the returning plane

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Some wet Friday afternoon calculations.

    A Boeing 737 that carries 180 passenger's, can carry over 20 tonnes in freight spec, say 300 calves and the crate's for them. The average Ryanair fare in 2022 was 40 Euro, plus whatever they sell onboard, so 8000 per journey leg, of income, calves could probably be air freighted to Europe for 30 - 40 Euro if there was a reasonable turn around time, and some sort of a back load.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,964 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Passengers walk on and off a plane. Ryanair have a turn around time of about 40 minutes on planes. They have passengers nowadays checked into flight and standing on a stairs or at a door ready to board.

    The back load is the crates the calves came in, unless you are going to buy completely new crates every load. It takes about 30 minutes to load or unload a full load of fertlizer, 14 pallets.

    Ya you can speed it up by having an extra sets of crates that are cleaned and ready for reloading.

    Cannot see total cost being less than 150/calf if it goes ahead.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,290 ✭✭✭tanko


    Have to keep checking that it’s not April fools day yet, such nonsense, they’ll be using drones to fly them over next.



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