Time to dump Irish

I sorta agree.

I think a happy medium would be to at least have a mandatory introduction to it. Say up to Junior Cert, and keep it light and interesting. Try to encourage interest and a regard for it's importance.

Official status is important in this regard but interest groups nshouldn't take this as a way to force it on anyone.

Maybe it's because we have a couple of very active Gael Scoilenna here but I hear Irish being spoken quite a lot here on the Monaghan/Fermanagh border. Big Brazilian pop here too as well as several European ones working the local factories. Quite the mix of languages if you listen out for them.

I can only go on what I see but we have a 10 year old in the house and he'll happily do his maths and English spellings homework but he almost shuts down when it comes to Irish homework. He does it but it's a real chore to get through. I think he likes maths because he can relate a lot of what they learn to his life around him - saving money, sharing things, telling time etc and he can see some benefit. With Irish he sees it as something that has to be filled in and then forgotten about. He's done 1 hour of French a week after school for the last year and I've probably heard him say more French words conversationally then he ever has Irish.

Part of the problem is there's no one in the house that can help him. My wife is English but grew up in France and can speak fluent French, and I haven't spoken Irish since I did my Leaving Cert 33 years ago so I'm usually stumped when he asks me a question, Google Translate to the rescue. Also, his teacher is from Donegal and I know for a fact that some of the words he tells me are pronounced differently to the way I remember learning them.

Why the derogatory 'arr culchur'?

That is very revealing to be honest. I'll never understand why people get their backs up about pride in what is a rich and varied heritage. Fair enough, it doesn't interest you, but why demean those who are.

In broad agreement there Furze, I think one of the mistakes made is the mandatory aspect and it needs addressing.

A knowledge of Irish is a tremendous thing when it comes to music and our literary heritage.

Firstly, I never said the language was banal, I said the reason was.

And the reason is valid: people assume because it's their language that everyone else born in the same MUST feel the same way.

Well let me ask you something: did you ask everyone else? How do you know it's their language? They might feel no connection with it whatsoever. And if it is their language why aren't the learning how to speak it? Why isn't it mandatory, full stop? Even if it is their language, why does it magically stop being so when they leave school?

For that flawed logic, the reason IS banal.

intorduction in primary school and other ideas like outside promotion I'm totally for, but you can't go round arrogantly telling everyone what is and is not their anything.

EDIT - you mention easier exams: how about scrapping exams altogether? Make it enjoyable and less pressurised and people will actually WANT to learn it.

By 'practical' do you mean it can't be monetised?

A huge amount of the population won't have any practical use for a lot of the maths we are forced to learn. I've managed life quite fine without using alegbra or trigonometry in any 'practical' setting and many people do too. Similarly, Chaucer and John Donne etc have not really come to the rescue too often either, 'practically', I'm glad I was made study them though, because it was enriching in a broad sense and primary and secondary education shouldn't ever lose sight of that as a goal/outcome.

By practical I mean can it serve it's function, which is communication. And Irish does not (the very fact that we're having this and previous similar discussions in English is kinda proving that point :) )

I do agree with you on your comments on Maths and other topics. I think we should still teach generics up until mid level and then allow people to specialise as much as they want beyond. That includes choices in arts and literature being just as valid as mathematics, science etc. The key there being choice.

[pedantic]

Understanding and Appreciation are higher functions, based on processing the information communicated via the language. They're not reliant on the language used so long as that language was shared between the parties.

[/pedantic]

TL;DR

Being able to understand words does not guarantee understanding of the concept or even appreciation of it.

No need to dump it wholesale. This would never happen anyway for political reasons.

Instead, make it optional after a certain point in the educational system. Then those who want to continue with it can do so freely.

Doing this would probably improve actual spoken use of Irish in the country as there would not be the same level of resendment towards it among those who were forced to attend classes but had no interest in the subject.

That's my point - I don't go ANYWHERE and tell ANYONE that. it's not for me to decide.

And - for the second time - I wasn't me who suggested a country's langauge should be regarded as banal either and you know that because I've pointed it out to you before - so take that up with whoever did say it.

I doesn't amaze me at all. If someone doesn't want to learn it, they don't want to learn it. Either make it something they do want to learn or focus your energies on people who do.

This isn's a binary 'hate it and drop it' or 'love it and make everyone do it' argument.