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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Even leaving morality aside, which is a big enough thing to do, executing POWs is counter productive in relation to the war effort. Keep the prisoners, and you can trade them for your own prisoners. Execute the prisoners, or treat them inhumanely, and their comrades will be less likely to surrender to you out of fear of what will happen to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Something the Ukrainans have been shown to be doing treating pows with care and dignity, unlike the the Russians who made the claims



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Much is being made of this delivery of 18 Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, but 18 tanks is not a lot. They're not impervious killing machines which can turn a battle around single-handedly. Presumably, you still need to have at least a few of them together, working in coordination with other forces to make a difference. What else is Ukraine getting to really bolster the effectivity of these machines, is the real question, and will be more pertinent to the success of their predicted Spring offensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    NY Times verified such claims and videos showing the executions. They're being taken serious by the UN HC for Human Rights so the allegatations obviously hold some weight. Nobody is above such an act, every country has individuals capable of this so to just completely dismiss the claims because they don't sit well with you is no different than Russians claiming the Ukrainian POW murder claims are false.

    Maybe allow some impartiality in when discussing these things, it allows for critical thought.

    Beverly Hills, California



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Here's to many, many more Russians bailing out on their national duty.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    It is probably unrealistic to expect that every single Ukrainian soldier will treat every single Russian POW with care and dignity. What is more important is that when Ukrainian soldiers carry out abuses, the prosecutor's office looks at it and (hopefully) the soldiers involved will be prosecuted. It is also important that the Ukrainian government and senior military officials continuously makes it clear that this type of behaviour is unacceptable.

    By contrast, Russia seems to do nothing about it, in some cases even giving medals to those who commit war crimes.

    But the point is this - unlike the Amnesty International report which was poorly researched and stuffed with nonsense about taking up positions in forests etc, the UN report must be taken seriously by Ukraine. There are 5 open investigations, but Ukraine needs to demonstrate that they are prepared to prosecute and jail any soldier who mistreats POWs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Russia claims to have intercepted a GLSDBS coming from Ukraine,more or less the first confirmation of their use by Ukrainian forces




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Field east




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,185 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Totally agree but the timing of the claims just as Russia is about to take the presidency of the UNSC , guess what will be the first order of the day



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Suppose I'll have to wait for someone on social media to confirm



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Field east


    What’s stopping the UN from winding itself up close its ‘bank accounts’ etc , register the fact that it is ‘winding up its business’ and start anew wait a new set of rules and regulations. Eg how countries can become members , maximum numbers, ANY MEMBER THAT INITATES AWAR , SPECIAL MISSION or WHATEVER , IS SUSeNDED UNTIL tHE WAR IS OVER



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Exactly.

    The Ukrainian authorities, in order to encourage continued support and equipment, have taken the approach of 1) praising all help given to date; 2) emphasising its contribution (often to the detriment of their own efforts and equipment) and 3) highlighting the need for even more equipment.

    For example, in the early part of the war the benefits of the Javelin were amplified, to the point where one could be forgiven for thinking that all tanks destroyed were directly destroyed by javelin missiles. That isn't really the case, and while they were very useful, the Ukrainian govt were happy for people in the West to believe that their weapons were having this disproporiate impact.

    Just as important, if not more important, are the 40-100 Marder IFVs that Germany are providing. Likewise the Bradleys that the Americans are providing and other IFVs/APCs.

    Then there is the American intelligence, HIMARs support and drones.

    When all this is put together with a force of well trained and motivated assault force volunteers (suggested to be in the range of 100-200k troops, though this might be optimistic), and there is a serious fighting force.

    Crucially, such a force will be used for maneuver warfare rather than direct confrontations. The Russians use probing attacks so that they can find out where the Ukrainians are weakest and attack there. The Ukrainians don't plan to hit the Russians where they are weak, they plan to hit the Russians where they are not there at all, and will aim to do so using high quality intelligence and recon, together with precision strikes. They can then give credit to the Leopards or whatever other weapon they want more of, but the most valuable things that the West have given them are recon, intelligence and superior tactics and training.

    However, it suits everyone, including Rheinmetal, Krauss etc to give credit to the Leopard. It also suits the USA not to over-emphasise the level of recon and intelligence that they give, because this creates political difficulties as regards the level of their actual involvement in the war, in a way that simply saying they gave some limited range equipment to Ukraine



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    The solution is for people to stop thinking of the UN as a global government or international peace community and more as a talking shop for the big powers to meet and reach agreements, while also allowing the smaller countries to have some notional say. In that context, it is far from perfect, but it is the only viable option because the alternative is, I dunno, NATO plus friends.

    It's easier to think about the UN as the organisation for the successful allies in WWII, that has since then tried to take on a greater role than it was originally intended for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 775 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    It risks going a bit off topic but once again the great powers (China, USA and Russia) won't join an organisation that restricts them like that. Their absence would turn the new organisation into a joke immediately. In any case no one can really stop a nuclear armed country that is determined enough to invade a neighbouring non-nuclear neighbour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,185 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,566 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    You mistake me, I said fight for his country, not the mafia gang currently occupying it's government.

    Any patriotic Russian should be currently engaged in open revolution.

    Also, no, Russian refugees, asylum seekers or economic migrants shouldn't be welcomed here or in any other civilised nation until such time as aforementioned revolution has begun. And even then, they should be heavily vetted and entry limited to the elderly or otherwise infirm and mothers accompanying their children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Lol do you hold the same opinions of Syrian refugees? Shouldnt they all be back fighting against the regime?

    And what about Afghanis? Should we deny them asylum because they should stay and fight the taliban instead?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    Those same three great powers are not signatories to the International Criminal Court. Unfortunately, it turns that organisation into a bit of a joke too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The only power the like of the UN has is power given to it by its member States. As soon as some refuse to recognise it or its judgements it becomes worthless.

    It is built almost entirely on confidence - trying to set up a new UN without Russia would not be recognised by many nations sympathetic to them, and many who would fear similar treatment. It would be a fast track to an even more fragmented world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Field east


    No Moscovite/Russian should be allowed in - as I said before- for the simple reason that they can all ‘be got at’ by Moscovite embassy staff - either directly or indirectly. . All they - embassy staff - need to do to get what they want is to threaten them , their family back home, etc, etc and away they go. There are loads of ‘windows in Ireland also and thousands of restaurants , coffee shops which can serve ‘ tea of all flavours’



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    So Russians and people of Russian descent in Ireland are now all potential assassins!

    Have you informed the authorities of this threat?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,045 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Refusing to fight for a dictator who is also a designated war criminal is not proof of cowardice. And those in Russia at the present time, who choose not to fight. are very brave men indeed. Must be the guts of 1 million Russians of military age who have chosen to leave rather than fight for Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,045 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Not to mention whet they will do to Ukrainian POW's. Tit for Tat. So its very wrong on every level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,045 ✭✭✭jmreire


    if organizing and fighting against Putin, a revolution was possible, don't you think that it would have happened before now? It has not and will not happen while Putin has a personal army of 420'000 so called National Defence Force ( AKA Putins personal defence force) This force is exclusively to prevent internal dissent, and will never be sent to Ukraine, nom matter how short of soldiers they are there. He has already stopped thousands and thousands of protesters, 30'0000 / 40'0000 at a time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I've no doubt Putin would choose a forever war instead of voluntarily retreating. He won't leave his position as president until either old age or sickness takes him. Unless Ukraine defeat them sooner I could see this war going 10 years. At the current rate of losses Russia will be defeated but there's no guarantee that keeps up.

    There's so much riding on this spring/summer offensive because without Ukrainian success Putin would be able to keep this going for 10 years easily with about 200k Russia soldiers dying each year.

    But if Ukraine actually can liberate Kherson and zaporizhzhia this summer it will seriously damage Russian logistics, split their army in 2 and provides Ukraine with real options to force Russia out over the next 2 year's.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Field east


    If that’s art of Putin’s strategy/policy/plan , re assassins well then yes. And re informing the relevant authorities, what I am saying should be as clear as the ‘noses on their faces’

    IMO you are a professional cherry picker and trying also to muddy the waters.


    another way of of replying to your input would be to say that you know wery well the point that I was making and it needed no further clarification /hinformation



This discussion has been closed.
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