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N5 - Westport to Turlough [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Westernview


    That's right. I think a lot of people think of a SC versus a DC as being a huge cost saving. Now I dont have the figures but I'd be interested to see the cost comparison. It should be remembered that the DC hasn't a hard shoulder so it's effectively comparing two lanes versus a single lane plus full hard shoulder. So its not that much wider in terms of carriageway. Instead the extra costs are mainly the items you listed, which are worth it in my view as they relate to safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I wasn't suggesting that that was a realistic alternative, just posing a hypothetical question on the trade off between getting more km of road v lower spec.

    Regarding capacity, west of Castlebar has ADT of c.9,000 and 11,600 is design limit for SC. Not all traffic will transfer to the new road, some will be local only and some will have to use the original road heading east to get onto the new road to go further east. FWIW DC is one third wider than Type 1 SC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I presumed that you had posed it as a viable alternative when you asked if it would have been worth considering. Obviously a single lane road will stretch further than a dual carriageway for the same budget. Not sure what else there is to say about hypothetical proposals.

    Based on the ADT figures you quoted the road is currently at 77% capacity of a SC so I would think that would add to the argument for the 2 lane option. Even allowing for some of the locals not using it the road it looks like it would need the higher spec road to service the area and increasing population for the next 30 or 40 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    13,000 is the design limit for Single Carriageway, but yes, any road with 9000 AADT today would automatically be bumped up to a 2+2 for future-proofing. A 2+2 tops out at around 22,000 AADT, but that can be increased by using motorway-style junctions with long on and off-ramps.


    In order of width, here are the likely cross-sections for a national primary road:

    12.3 m Type 1 Single Carriageway (2.5 m shoulders + 3.65 m lanes)

    15.0 m Pre-2007 “Wide Single Carriageway” (2.5 m shoulders + 5.0 lanes), rising to 16+ m at junctions (e.g. N25 Kilmacthomas). -- this road type is no longer permitted for new builds.

    16.5 m Type 2 Dual Carriageway, not including offline cycle/pedestrian way. (e.g., N5 Westport-Turlough)

    21.6 m Type 1 Dual Carriageway / Motorway (e.g., all the inter-urbans built since 2000, except M1).

    23.0 m Wide Dual Carriageway Motorway, not including 7m unpaved median between carriageways. (e.g., M9 Kilcullen bypass, M7 north of Portlaoise, all of M1). The standard is still current, but realistically, there will be no more of this road-type built.

    Post edited by KrisW1001 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Got a good laugh reading that. Basically upgrade every road and rail in the county bypassing the chronic traffic problem in 'Balla'😄, while the two biggest towns in the county should not have been freed from gridlock. Time is ticking for these chancers at least..



  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭pjordan


    Quite a bit of rectifying of signage to be done round Castlebar and Westport and along the old road(s) in between according to that map. The existing signage has a lot of catching up to do to synchronise with the signage on the new N5. And I guess none of that can be done until the new road actually opens?

    It also exposes what I consider to be a major flaw in the policy of TII/NRA of downgrading existing national routes to R classified regional roads when superceded by a dual carriageway or motorway. From what I recall the policy in UK and USA was to retain national route status for existing thoroughfare roads with slight name change such as A1A, whereas instead here in Ireland we have the scenario or the still heavily used former Galway Dublin road downgraded to regional status as the R446. One would presume that the traffic on these regional routes will still require maintainence regimes equivilant to national routes but will find it difficult to attract this level of funding allocation owing to their designation as regional routes - something I think will eventually come home to roost in the next decade or so with the detioriation surface quality of these routes



  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    Great to have this road opening soon. Safety improved and built to a standard for future traffic increases as population and development (hopefully) grows.

    As a south Mayo Resident I do think improvements on the road from Tuam to Ballinrobe are required urgently. The increase since the M17 motorway opened is huge. Everyone is south Mayo now goes to Dublin via Tuam. Even onto Westport (turning left at Partry).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The US and UK systems are a mess, with duplicate numbers for different routes. Considering both countries are places where route-numbers are displayed prominently on signage, it’s doubly stupid. (Yes, I know the UK motorway network is in its own separate number space, but really it’s not particularly helpful to the average driver, especially when you’ve got the whole A-road-under-motorway-restrictions category to further muddy the water: is it A1(M) or M1? ).

    We have a clear and logical route-numbering system in this country, where the lowest-numbered routes are the most nationally significant. Roads 1-50 = roads of primary national importance; 51-99 = roads of secondary national importance; 100+ = roads of regional importance. A road can be busy without being nationally significant - the decision is down to journey distances, not capacity: the section of old N6 you mention is a busy road, but not for national-scale journeys. There are several dual-carriageway regional roads in the country too - that doesn’t mean they should be given a nationally significant number just because they’re big roads; they’re regional because they carry medium-distance traffic. There is also an idea that for a given long-distance journey, there shouldn’t be two parallel national roads: N6 is Galway to Dublin; there is no need for another primary road along that corridor.

    (and yes, there are also some very short national roads like N29, but they get to be national primary routes because they connect ports and airports to the rest of the country)

    The other reason for making a bypassed road regional is that regional routes are not funded by TII - only the primary roads get direct funding; maintenance of regional roads are funded by county councils. Once a road is downgraded, there are certain things that can be dropped from the maintenance if the traffic is sufficiently low: for instance, any wide single-carriageway route could have its hard shoulders and lane-width reduced to a more appropriate size at a future date in order to save on maintenance costs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Westernview


    It makes sense that some would be downgraded and others not depending on how busy they are. I can't see the existing N5 being too busy when the new road opens.

    Also the opportunity to reduce the lane-widths on the old road may appeal to the council as I heard they were considering the option of having a greenway alongside it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭pjordan


    I think plans are well afoot for upgrade works for the R332 between Tuam and Kilmaine. Personally I'd also like to see upgrade works on the R330 Partry to Westport road on which I live and which has seen a considerable increase in traffic since the M17 opened. There are numerous stretches of this road where two oncoming trucks or a bus and a truck cannot pass each other safely. Just this week I had yet another crash outside my house where one car swerved and braked to avoid another coming towards it over the white line and lost control and nearly demolished my shed!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    I never understand why people from Westport travel to Tuam via Partry and Kilmaine, it's a horrific road. I always go via Claremorris - travel time is about the same and it's a much easier drive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭TnxM17


    Hopefully along the R330 will be quieter for you once the new N5 is opened.

    I worked out earlier in the thread that it would be 22 minutes (22km) using the R330 versus 26 minutes (31.9 km) of pretty good road along the N84 & N5 to a point in the middle of Westport starting from Partry. I would think it makes sense to use n84 & N5 for any trip north of Westport including traffic using NCT etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Hopefully once the new road opens it will be slightly faster to travel N5/N84 from Westport to Partry/Ballinrobe or N5/N60 to Tuam. At the moment Partry is 2 minutes slower using the N5, and Tuam is 5 minutes slower. The new road should save at least 5 minutes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    Ballinrobe next in line for a bypass? Long overdue. I remember Claremorris pre bypass days. Friday evening home on the school bus used to take 30-40mins to go through the town. Absolute bottleneck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭pjordan


    It's a shame they didn't utilise this works opportunity to sort out the stretch of the N84 at Aughadrina adjacent to the new N5. Like I said earlier in the thread, not only did they fail to address that issue, they even compounded it by preserving the lack of a hard shoulder all the way in to Castlebar town boundary, making it a harsh and unwelcoming (not to mention very dangerous) territory for cyclists or pedestrians. It seems in TII's book that pedestrians don't (or shouldnt!) venture beyond town boundaries on national routes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Very badly needed. Strange it hasn't been given more priority on a National primary route between Castlebar and Galway.

    Post edited by Westernview on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Westernview


    It's a pity alright although the fact that the bridge isn't wide enough for cycle lanes means that the hard shoulder would only be of limited use for cyclists.

    I often notice when driving to Partry from Castlebar the amount of available room in the grass areas each side of the road. It really was a missed opportunity not to have a wider bridge linking to cycle paths on this road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭TnxM17


    This looks a long time away.

    Funding has been granted for traffic lights in the town.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Westernview




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭spakman


    who/what is the cause of the delays here? Is it the contractor or TII? do Mayo co co have any role/power in holding anyone to account?

    It's ridiculous at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Consultation on Draft Castlebar Local Transport Plan;

    I dont know enough about the town to say if they are meaningful proposals or if it is just saying put a bus route and cycle lanes on practically every road.

    They really should be looking to pedestranise some areas in the centre of the town, could make the town much more attractive to visit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Connacht Telegraph are reporting the official opening is delayed until June.



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    The quality of writing in the Connaught Telegraph is truly abysmal, but they appear to be suggesting again that the Castlebar bypass could open early.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Im fairly sure the wages in those local newspapers reflect the quality of writing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Westernview


    If they have contacted the Taoiseach's office to postpone the opening then it won't be opening early. They must have written that piece on the artwork before word on delays came out but forgot to amend it before they posted it.

    I think it would be best if they would stop releasing opening dates until they are sure of when it will be ready.



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  • Posts: 0 Iker Pitiful Tray


    “the contractors on the N5 road project have indicated they are not confident that a date of late April for completion is likely.”




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Is the standard of construction work in general just going down? A long time since i've seen an ontime completion. Maybe the Castlebaldwin project (allowing for covid closures).

    And the cost of this rubbish keeps going up. Depressing. Anyway, lets look forward to rehiring these companies that let us down time and time again



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    It appears that I owe the Connaught Telegraph an apology 😀 The article is just a cut and paste job from the latest official update on the project from Mayo County Council.

    It appears an early opening for the Castlebar bypass is definitely still on the cards, as a road safety audit has been carried out on this section and they are currently addressing the snags, which is the final step before the road can open.

    A road safety audit has not yet been done on the Castlebar to Knockranny stretch and there is no mention of the Knockranny to N59 section at all. Given the above, the road could end up opening to traffic in 3 stages as they are clearly progressing each section separately.

    https://eagenda.mayo.ie/FilesUpLoaded/20233231011Item%20No%208.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,531 ✭✭✭HBC08


    In fairness they often copy and paste WhatsApp rumours and print them so its definitely a good idea to double check source!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Contractor for this scheme is an utter embarrassment. I've lost track of the number of opening dates that have been plucked from thin air. It's rare to see any form of completion work going on when passing any of the junctions.

    I'll hold off driving it for a while when it does eventually open. Probably a lot more they've botched up as well



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Are you basing your opening dates on what the Connacht Telegraph have said or that contractor has said.

    The road safety audit is like a snagging list and they won't be allow open unless everything is up to spec.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,531 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Anything plucked fron thin air has come from the transition year students who run the Connaught Telegraph. How many definite grand opening date exclusives have been trumpeted by the Mayo News or the Western?

    If anything runs over time and it's the fault of the contractor they will be paying penalties.

    Turlough to islaneady will be open before the summer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Official word from Mayo County Council today is still that the Castlebar bypass will open in the next few weeks, with no specific date given. Rest of the project to open in Q2, which could be any time up to the end of June obviously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    View from the Sheeaun road overbridge outside Westport this evening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Interesting prediction here that the new road will lead to a 19% increase in traffic through Breaffy, because Ballina to Claremorris traffic will now go this way instead of via Kiltimagh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    It's not a route I travel, but I'd be very surprised if many people make that detour just to use what is a very short section of DC between the N60 and the N5. They'd be on the new N5 for probably a minute at most.

    I'd say there will be much greater traffic increases in Ballintubber and Ballyheane as a result the new road (Galway to Westport traffic) than in Breaffy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    That prediction doesn't make any sense. If you are going from Ballina, you either go left at Straide and through Bohola and kiltimagh. If you go straight, you would go through Ballyvary and on to Balla.

    I would think the only reason you would be headed back towards Castlebar and Breaffy would be if you already had reason to use that route.



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Westernview




  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    I'd love to be a fly on the wall at those negotiations, so to speak 😄



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  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Probably my last photo update before the road opens (hopefully anyway!)

    The Castlebar to Westport stretch is looking good 👍 Just some road markings to finish at the Westport end.


    The Westport relief road has progressed massively since January. The first pic is the roundabout behind Allergan and the next is the view east from the Newport Road roundabout. The N59 Barley Hill section is fully open now, with only the southern tie-in at the Westport end to be completed.


    The signage on the mainline is largely complete. Knock airport features very prominently on all eastbound signage, at the expense of Ballina. I'm not sure what Joe Biden would make of that lol.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,402 ✭✭✭plodder


    I see the N59 section of this is open already. It's funny how a new road immediately feels like it's always been there, and it's hard to even visualise the crappy old road it replaces. I'd wonder though how many people will use this road to get from Castlebar to Newport and beyond. While it's a much better road, the distance is a lot longer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Healy92


    I don't get why Claremorris would take precedence over Ballina in that sign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Will Joe Biden and his motorcade be the first official users of the Castlebar bypass section of the new N5? The location of the security barriers out the Westport Road suggests that he might be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Well it looks like it will take a US President to get this road open at this stage. What's the latest hold up, are they trying to figure out how to get the paint off the road signs or something.?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    It would actually be quite a good idea to beat the ObamaPlaza by having Joe open a BidenHighway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    I'd say that's why it's not open. No need to security sweep a closed road. Any bets it's open to traffic next week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    In fairness, if it happens, it would be some coup for Mayo to get a sitting US President to open the road. And I'd guess Biden would get quite a kick out of it too, and it would play well as a PR exercise to Irish America.

    Don't know if that's what will happen, but the timing seems to suit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    I don't think he will open the road or anything like that, they will just open it for him as a one off to allow him to access the town tomorrow.

    The purpose of his trip to Castlebar is to visit the Mayo Hospice. That's on the west side of the town - the "wrong" side in terms of where he's coming from, so it's less disruptive to take him around on the new bypass and bring him in via the Westport Road, rather than taking him around the inner ring road past the football stadium etc.

    This way they only need to close the west side of the town for his visit, beyond the hospital, and the town centre and hospital can stay open and relatively unaffected, for what is a private visit anyway - the public event is in Ballina.

    He probably won't even realise that he's on a previously unused stretch of road. But it would mean that he would be the first user of the road, which would be a little bit of history in itself.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Antipathetic


    I'm almost certain he will be coming along the new bypass with the amount of barriers I saw on that side of town earlier today along with extra security fencing near the hospital roundabout.

    What happens to the old road from Castlebar to Westport will it be downgraded in some way?

    And this is probably a pipe dream but is there any chance they will put in place some cycling infrastructure between the two towns on the old road once the bypass is up and running?



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