Wokeism of the day Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users

BattleCorp · 17-02-2023 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249333#Comment_120249333

I'm about to go as unwoke as someone can go and call Mr. Sam Smith a fcuking retard.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 17-02-2023 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251921#Comment_120251921

They paid off their debt by selling Dalymount Park to DCC for 3.8million euros. Selling your assets isn't a bailout.

cdeb · 17-02-2023 12:53pm

Selling your ground generally wouldn't be considered a good way to run a football club though. It's a last-ditch panic effort when all else had failed (and of course, they'd already sold the ground twice before)

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 17-02-2023 1:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252401#Comment_120252401

It's the best way to run a football club when they're in debt for millions of euros and the choice is either selling valuable assets or going bust.

They are now debt-free, not from any bail outs either, and they were never in danger in the first place because of the Refugees Welcome jersey and, I bet, they won't be because of the pro-Palestine jersey either. Neither of those two shirts(!) have contributed or will contribute to their debt woes, any speculation to the contrary is rhetorical flotsam and jetsam.

cdeb · 17-02-2023 1:48pm

So it's the best way of running a football club when they were really badly run before? Not sure that counts really.

And have they learnt their lesson? History would say no. After all, they've sold their ground three times now (once while drunk) and each time needed to sell it again to bail themselves out.

It's hard to agree with your argument that they're a well-run club.

The original point was that they tend to focus too much on the social justice stuff (they appointed a climate justice officer last year for example) while performances on the pitch have been dropping away, and I think there's certainly an argument to be made for that.

17-02-2023 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249765#Comment_120249765

Sam Smith seems to be having a laugh with the "fisherthem" thing - the clip is funny too, with the interviewers acting all fascinated that Sam likes fishing. One saying that it's "so cool".

It's really that peculiar for a human to enjoy fishing? Or do those interviewers think it's only the preserve of masculine blokes? Tut tut.

Cordell · 17-02-2023 2:08pm

Fishermen:

Fisherthem:

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 17-02-2023 2:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252684#Comment_120252684

So it's the best way of running a football club when they were really badly run before? Not sure that counts really.

It actually does count when selling the ground is the only choice between continuing as a club, or folding.

Unless they get into trouble again it's fair to say that they are a well-run club. They are out of debt, have been for years, and attendances having been rising (source below). Not an easy feat for a LoI club and perfectly reasonable then to say that they are a well-run club, even if they were not a decade or so ago.

The original point was that they tend to focus too much on the social justice stuff (they appointed a climate justice officer last year for example) while performances on the pitch have been dropping away, and I think there's certainly an argument to be made for that.

Well I'm here to correct that person and tell them (and you) that they are unrelated.

Within an organisation, like a football club, there is what's known as a structure: where different people in different departments have different responsibilities. What this means is that the people (or person) who is in charge of accuring sponsorships, marketing, climate justice, and so on and so forth are different from the people (or person) in charge of coaching, management, the acquisition of players, team performance, and so on.

With all of these different people with different roles and responsibilities it means that the people who arrange sponsorships and so on are not the same people responsible for the performance of the team on the pitch. That means that the two issues are unrelated, they have nothing to do with each other. It would be like blaming the poor performance of the u13 team on the good performance of the u21 team. They're not related. It's irrelevant.

https://www.extratime.com/articles/28949/2022-league-of-ireland-attendances---the-story-so-far/

cdeb · 17-02-2023 2:22pm

Attendances are rising across the league though. Pat's are getting 5k into their little hovel by the Camac. People are even turning up to UCD games. So you can't really pin that one on Bohs. Arguably it's more people getting fed up of how dull and predictable and over-hyped the Premier League in England has become.

I don't think you can take one snapshot of time and say Bohs are well-run because they have no debt right now, and ignore that they've had to sell their ground three times to get there. That's not a reasonable analysis of how well-run they are.

I think your explanation of how an organisation works is rather patronising tbh, and you then don't seem to bring it all together and look at the overall - and the number one thing for a football club is to be successful on the pitch. And they're going backwards in that regard, and with no Euro money (and the Matt Doherty million I think spent) then it's going to be harder for them to get back to where they were. (And that's with the obvious caveat that in the LoI, most things are possible)

So on that basis, I think the original point that their focus as a club is wrong is still valid. (And I also think Strumms went a bit over the top on the hyperbole too)

One eyed Jack · 17-02-2023 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252733#Comment_120252733

Ahh I think it’s more the idea of a celebrity who’s into fishing is peculiar than anything else. Fairness it could be worse, like larping as a rubber dinghy at the Brit awards 🤨

What was funny though is he’d to think about the whole fisherwhatever, that was just awkward but funny, when he hesitates over the idea - “I’d love to be a fish… fisherthem”, he’d obviously not given it any thought himself before then 😂

https://metro.co.uk/2023/02/16/sam-smith-reveals-wild-dream-of-ending-their-days-as-a-fisher-them-18292486/?ico=read_full_story_videopage

Yeah_Right · 17-02-2023 4:23pm

Ok this is off topic but I'm really curious. How have Bohs managed to sell their ground 3 times? Did they buy it back and that contribute to going into debt? Or was it given back to them, they go into debt and then they sell it to pay the debt? If it's the latter, that's genius.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 17-02-2023 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120253747#Comment_120253747

As far as I can tell, they failed once because they didn't own all of it. Not sure if that counts. I want to hear more about how they sold it drunk (unless it was historical).

Yeah_Right · 17-02-2023 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120253758#Comment_120253758

Yes! Drunk selling/buying a football ground has to be a good yarn. I'm sure we've all woken up after a session and couldn't find our phone wallet or looked at our bank statements wondering what the hell you bought for 500 quid. But a football ground!! That's another level.

cdeb · 17-02-2023 5:39pm

They sold the condemned terrace to the local (adjacent, in fact) shopping centre in the late 90s or so, and put that money into the first team.

Then they sold the ground to a developer (Liam Carroll) around 2003; the deal was a cash deposit up front, a new ground in Harristown, further cash instalments while that was being built, and then the developer would put houses on Dalymount. They spent their deposits on the first team too - but then because they'd already sold part of the ground, which was key to site entry, the deal wound up in the High Court. The judge ruled the Liam Carroll deal was void (see here - "Mr Justice Edwards noted there was "a good deal of alcohol" consumed at this lunch"), and so Bohs now owed back the deposit, which they couldn't pay because they'd spent it on players' wages of course. So that's how they got a couple of million in debt (not sure how much exactly, but a lot for a LoI side) and nearly wound up relegated (from champions in 2009 to two points off a relegation play-off in 2013 for example).

Ultimately, the Council bought the ground off them to clear the debt, but because they had been renting the car park to (I think) the Mater Hospital for a six-figure sum each year, that money might now go to the Council as it's not Bohs' ground to lease any more. (Another argument CGI overlooks with the simplistic debt-free = well-run argument)

TLDR - the LoI is always way more fun!

AllForIt · 17-02-2023 7:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120253481#Comment_120253481

Ahh I think it’s more the idea of a celebrity who’s into fishing is peculiar than anything else. Fairness it could be worse, like larping as a rubber dinghy at the Brit awards 🤨

Yea, this version of fishing seems more plausible.

https://slang.net/meaning/fishing#:~:text=Fishing%20is%20when%20a%20person,a%20bite%20from%20a%20fish.

Fishing is when a person says or does something to get a compliment from someone. People typically fish when they are insecure about something and need positive reinforcement.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 17-02-2023 7:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254089#Comment_120254089

No right minded person would look at a football club which goes from being on the brink of folding with debts totalling millions of euros to being debt-free for over five years and think “that is not a well run club,” regardless of their league position.

Strumms · 17-02-2023 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251847#Comment_120251847

Being ‘debt free’ isn’t success, if it is you’ve a pretty low barometer for what qualifies as ‘success’ in sport 😅. As has been pointed out to you they needed a dig out from the council to achieve that, basically to sell their home.

look at the performances, results and abject lack of success… you don’t exactly need a masters in ‘ association football management ‘ to realise that fecking away serious revenue on virtue signalling and ‘causes’ is a foolhardy wokefail when you are tasked with trying to bring success and silverware to the club as your primary goal and responsibility….

cdeb · 17-02-2023 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254528#Comment_120254528

It's almost as if you're not capable of engaging in actual discussion.

They could well have lost rental income of about 200k a year as a result of this. And are probably paying to rent what they used to own.

Is that good too?

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 17-02-2023 9:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120254617#Comment_120254617

It’s better than going under ffs 🤦 It has nothing to do with “woke” shirts either. At this stage you have to be trolling.

Anyway I reckon the “woke” shirts are great, they support great causes and they cause absolutely no harm.

Evade · 17-02-2023 9:54pm

Unless someone is paying them to put those slogans on the shirt they do harm the cash flow of the business.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 17-02-2023 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255012#Comment_120255012

Not necessarily, the slogans may open up new cash flow from e.g casual non Bohs fans supporting Palestine, even people from abroad. It’s definitely not as straightforward as no sponsor = no five dollar, even if some people like to pretend it is that straightforward.

Evade · 17-02-2023 10:28pm

Guaranteed income from a sponsor or potential income from some imaginary customer that might buy a shirt from a club they don't support because of the political slogan. I'm no business tycoon but that doesn't seem like a sound business decision to me.

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 17-02-2023 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255165#Comment_120255165

A football club at this level isn’t a strictly for-profit organisation. They’re quite often community driven enterprises, that include charitable donations or drives.

I think a lot of the confusion surrounding Bohs’ efforts to “give back” stems from the ultra-capitalistic culture in the Premier League, which is seen by many to be the prism through which Irish fans view the soccer world.

Back before football was invented in 1992 the old First Division clubs in England were seen to be representative of their working class fans, as well as try to win trophies, as opposed to the purely commercial enterprises Premier League clubs are now.

That’s why I, a person who has been a soccer fan for many decades, think it’s a good thing that an Irish soccer team would rather not fold then collapse under a multi-million euro debt, or have a slogan printed on their jersey that reflects the club’s and its values over Generic Multinational Corp Inc’s logo printed all over it. Chasing profit at the expense of accumulating debt does not a well-run club make.

In short: once upon a time supporting a club used to mean something, and I don’t think it’s “woke” to harken back to those days.

Danzy · 17-02-2023 11:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120253481#Comment_120253481

The level of narcissism, I feel really sorry for him.

Evade · 17-02-2023 11:14pm

It doesn't have to be a generic multinational sponsor, it's usually a decent sized localish business isn't? Palestine isn't exactly a local endeavour either.

cdeb · 17-02-2023 11:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255003#Comment_120255003

"Better than going under" is your definition of a well-run club?

Right so.

cdeb · 17-02-2023 11:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255165#Comment_120255165

They have a sponsor on the kit. This is just a fiver a sale (or whatever it works out as) to charity. Not a big deal financially, and if it drives sales, it'd pay for itself

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 17-02-2023 11:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255480#Comment_120255480

Yes, when the only other option is going under. How do you not get that?

Strumms · 18-02-2023 12:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255320#Comment_120255320

It’s very much a for profit organisation 😅 and… It’s a for success organisation. Bizarre that this requires an explanation for you.

See, the only way in modern football that you can be successful is by having the resources to invest in the club… for players, coaching staff, facilities and so on, that will enable you to compete on and off the pitch for trophies. ;). Competitive sport… remember ! 👍🏻

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/12/refugees-welcome-bohemian-fc-team-up-with-amnesty-for-new-away-kit

“We made the decision to allow our shirt to be used as a platform, alongside Amnesty International, to highlight a very real and pressing issue in Ireland today, that of Direct Provision,” said the Bohemians director, Daniel Lambert. “This builds on a deep and lasting relationship we have built with MASI [Movement of Asylum Seekers in Ireland] and through multiple engagements with people living in Direct Provision.”

CGI_Livia_Soprano · 18-02-2023 12:09am

“Compete on and off the pitch for trophies?”

Utter nonsense. Anyway, profit doesn’t necessarily mean success or that a club is being run well. Manchester City and Chelsea aren’t profitable and they’ve been a massive success in the past twenty years, likewise Arsenal have been profitable and they’ve won fück all lately. Bohs shirts have had exactly zero effect on their performances.

Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

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Wokeism of the day Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users