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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,291 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The Russian military stopped manufacturing most of there RPG's in the late 90's early noughties and basically exported them to anyone fighting the Yanks. The numbers they have are quite small it seems numbering in the thousands not ten of thousands.

    They are a number of variants however they have one major flaw they all weight 12ish kgs similar to the Javelin. A LAWS is 3ish kgs. They have not got enough to deploy at squad level.

    Just look at the LAWS the UA has 100k of them. If you have a million active military that is one to ten troops, but you would not be giving them to pilots, tank crews, artillery units etc.

    The drone would have been put up to see was there another tank or howitzers within 2-3km of the trench. Battlefield intelligence would tell you that generally such positions do not have ATM, whether it's ATGM or RPG's

    Basically it's battlefield risk analysis and comes back to how poorly equipped the average Russian troop, squad or army generally are.

    So basically the decision by a battlefield commander in such a situation was how do we attack it. In this case it was send in a fast moving tank to shoot up the trench.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Well , they certainly won't want to pick up the tab , I mean they've done 100s and 100s of billions of dollars of damage to Ukraine and it's infrastructure ..

    But at some point Russia will want to start "normalizing " relationships with the west .. and having sanctions removed , the imposition of secondary sanctions on companies and countries trading with Russia but not paying the "rebuild Ukraine levy " would help . .

    Oh and if Russia isn't making as much from exports ,then it doesn't have as much to reinvest in their military..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,603 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    What's the problem with "denouncing the Putin government " ? Or does ye're bravery not extend beyond raping and murdering civilians?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    The thing to watch is the approx $300bn of Russian offshore reserves currently frozen in Western banks.

    There has long been calls for this money to be seized and given to Ukraine as reparations to be used for reconstruction. It is however legally tricky...a space to be watched.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,018 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Well, I had one experience in Syria where I was stopped at a checkpoint, ( pretty much common experience there!!! ) and as things seemed to be dragging on, I asked the officer what was the problem, and he said that we were stopped because there were snipers operating from a tall building just ahead, and that they had requested a tank to come and take them out. And sure enough, a tank duly appeared (on its own) and levelled the building. If the snipers were still in it or not, I never found out, but there were no shots fired when we drove past it anyway.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Who Says they are waiting for leopards for a summer offensive,



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They found the Ukraine "invasion" maps AFTER they invaded Ukraine, great logic there Ivan. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The idea is to get Ukraine to waste it's missles shooting at balloons with deflectors on to trigger systems ,

    Cheap and effective for the most part,then came the large cruise missile strikes as reported



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,018 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The Geneva Conventions are universal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    That's what losers do, silly billy.

    It's not like Russia will have a choice.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,011 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    The wheels will move quite slowly because you are talking about lots of different countries with actual working independent legal systems vs 1 country with Putin (or someone similar) who can snap his fingers/invite someone to a sit down and a cup of tea, but I don't think Russia is getting the frozen assets and money it has in the West back.

    So Russia will pay the piper eventually.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Russian State Duma deputy Dmitry Kuznetsov says he hopes the Belarus reunification with Russia can be solved soon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    There are many ways to skin a cat. I don't believe that Russia will pay a penny for Ukrainian reconstruction. The people who will bear the brunt of it will be the Ukrainian people. Foreign companies will come in and rebuild the place at the expense of Ukrainian resources. That's how these corporations operate. They don't care who foots the bill as long as they take the profits.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I have two issues with this line of discussion.

    1) People who make unnecessary assumptions about what the enemy may or may not have, and what they may or may not do, are quite likely to end up dead. History is littered with instances of tanks lost to things which 'according to the paper statistics' have no chance of causing damage, and just because the enemy has 'few' AT weapons doesn't mean you're not going to encounter one of those few. Heck, the one surviving working Tiger was captured by being knocked out by a weapon which wargame rules will often say don't have a chance of doing so.

    An Abrams in our company was M-killed by an RPG-7 or Namer fired from the frontal arc in Iraq. Lucky shot. Fortunately, the tank was not lost, because the tank was operating as part of a platoon, the fight was subsequently won, and we were then able to recover the tank which was then repaired and returned to service. That's why you don't make assumptions you can avoid, and why you don't travel alone.

    2) They still only sent one tank. You aren't supposed to say "It's only a bunch of dismounts, send just one tank, we don't need the others", you say "LT, go kill those dismounts." and the LT will take his platoon to do it. Overkill is not a thing, whilst operating as elements is. It also provides a bit of a backup in case what you think you're going up against actually isn't.


    I have no reason to believe that the move was not the most appropriate decision given the situation at the time. That's fair. But it is also not an indicator of everything being hunky-dory when moving a single tank around unsupported is the most appropriate decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I would not underestimate the complexity of seizing state assets (i.e. Russian offshore reserves) and then giving them to another state. It's pretty much unprecedented in modern economic history.

    I also think Russian reparations (along the lines of say Versailles) are highly unlikely.

    A modern-day Marshall Plan for Ukraine, funded by the EU and US, seems much more probable in my view. In fact, it's already happening. Some of the aid being pledged is not direct military or humanitarian aid, but is rather for reconstruction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    Why do I think they won't pick up the tab? Because they won't think they have to. How are you going to make them pay? America wrecked Vietnam and to date hasn't paid a penny in war reparations and who's going to make them? Yes Russia have wrecked Ukraine but they're not going to see it that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    European and other world countries care, that's the difference. Sanctions can be employed that suck money from the Russian economy. What would it say to other tin-pot countries like Russia, if the world stood by and just let the Russians slink off home when defeated. This war has cost a lot of countries vast sums of money, potential investments have been lost. Russia is trampling all over a lot of people's wealth, what history has shown us is, this is a great motivator for action. Russian unfortunately has bitten off way more than it can chew and will pay.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,051 ✭✭✭✭briany


    If anyone wades in with the "but America..." line, it would be a good question to ask where they're going with that line of rhetoric. They never really draw many solid conclusions from the point they raise, which makes me suspect it's a weaselly way to try and undermine the moral position of Ukraine by just sowing a bit of doubt.

    In any case, Ukraine will take weapons from whoever is supplying them in order to defend their country. The only particulars they can really ponder at this time are the ones which would give them the best strategic outcome. Everything else is going to be for the vast amount of books written about this conflict for years to come.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I try not to as I definitely would not understand all of those complexities.

    I would agree there will be no Russian "reparations" in the way you have defined them (like Versailles). My feeling is the UN and all international structures have failed when it comes to this conflict. It is going to be up to US/EU and allies to punish Russia.

    In terms of natural justice of making the one who destroyed Ukraine chip in for a reconstruction, the only thing they have left is what Russia owned in these Western countries.

    There is an incentive there for them to try and build some kind of collective approach to it among themselves rather than see Russia just sail off free of obligations after this stupid war ends, having wrecked its neighbour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    It's called discrimination based on political beliefs or indeed political apathy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,140 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    In my view, the really complex piece is what happens when the fighting stops.

    Ukraine will need massive help reconstructing itself. Reintegrating all the refugees. But I have every confidence this will happen and that it will enter the Western European economic, social and political sphere for ever. Up to and including eventual EU accession.

    It's what happens to Russia that is the most challenging strategic problem. It will still be a nuclear-armed, confrontational, xenophobic dictatorship run by a kleptomaniac (even if, highly unlikely in my view, Putin is deposed or dies - he will be replaced by someone of similar ilk).

    How the collective West engages with this rogue state will be an enormous challenge. Ultimately we want Russia to be a force for good in this world...how we get to that point, I have no idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,777 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You were asked to condemn Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine and the war crimes.

    You respond with a total piece of deflection about discrimination???

    What an absolute cop out answer.

    Textbook morally and intellectually bankrupt response.

    Simple question: Do you condemn, without equivocation or whataboutery, Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine and the way they have conducted the war re: atrocities such as Bucha, deliberately targeted attacks on civilians.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I don't know why you waste your time. The Ignore feature is a highly useful one. All you will get from idiots like that one is deflection and sophistry (and you can't beat a fool at their own game, so why bother trying?).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,051 ✭✭✭✭briany


    My feeling is the UN and all international structures have failed when it comes to this conflict

    @fly_agaric

    I agree that the UN has been toothless, and you probably wouldn't need to be a geopolitics graduate to have suspected it would be so.

    Other international structures like the EU and NATO - there will always be those who will argue that they could have/can do more, but nevertheless it has been absolutely critical to Ukraine the support they have been providing. It's not a binary thing of failure or success.

    As for international structures which are supposed to act as diplomatic tools designed to prevent war between countries, I agree that those ones have failed in this instance, but a cursory look at history shows us that the systems and failsafes we design to prevent war still can not prevent every war. Maybe they prevent a lot of conflicts which would have happened if those systems were never put in place, but still something always seems to come along which the system cannot seem to prevent.



This discussion has been closed.
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