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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    Do the Geneva Conventions apply to everyone or just Russia?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭vixdname


    Its like they live in a dystopian world where their military, navy and allies have an invisible shield around them protecting them from retaliation.

    "We send our navy to their borders" - but ignoring that if their navy stood out of line, every boat \ ship would be sunk in short time, an every soul on board would perish.

    "We get north korea to hit them in a heartbeat" - but ignoring that NK would then within about a couple of hours, be transformed into a glassy radioactive wasteland, basically devoid of human life.

    "We should strike London or Berlin" - Refer to NKs outcome for same above.

    In their minds do they seriously think western countries would just be afraid and in awe when they saw their russian adversaries approaching and would sit idly by as russia does what it likes without fear of retaliation ?

    The sight of that white haired old man in a suit gesticulating in front of the camera as he delivers such ludicrous nonsense is quite sad viewing in a way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,927 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The Russian ATGM are a two man operation,wire guided and require specialist operators. They are not deployed at squad level.

    The UA got 5k+ Javelins but they also got 100k LAWS. If that was a UA position they would probably have a couple LAWS in the trenches.

    The UA T72/T90 tanks are upgraded compared to the Russian tanks. You would need the more modern RPG missiles to stop them. The RPG is very effective......against stationary targets but will only hit 50% of slow moving targets it would be pretty useless against that fast moving targets.

    Most of the legendary status of the RPG is made up of it ability to hit stationary targets or its ability to bring down hovering helicopters.

    Basically the average Russian squad have f@@kall to stop a tank.

    I think the tank was sent in as drones had assessed the position and the area around it had nothing capable off stoppage tank. Why waste soldiers lives. That is why the tank was moving fast. Probably has backup a km back.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭ambro25




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭vixdname


    VPNs are probably new inventions to poor russian bots, they haven't realised many ordinary internet user use them as another layer of security in the west



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The Russian army do not use RPG-7, it has long been replaced by a number of more powerful variants like the RPG-29, which while not as potent as something like a Kornet ATGM, is still powerful in its own right.

    As for the RPG-7's "legendary" status, its more that its just cheap and widely available, particularly for insurgencies and terrorist groups. The Ak-47 of explosive weapons. Its reputation is little to do with it packing any kind of punch.

    Javelin use in Ukraine seems to have sharply dropped, very little footage of their use as of late. Not clear if thats just less videos of events, less opportunity to use them, or low stocks.

    I think the tank was sent in as drones had assessed the position and the area around it had nothing capable off stoppage tank. Why waste soldiers lives. That is why the tank was moving fast. Probably has backup a km back.

    How would drones have spotted any portable anti-tank weapons that may be lying in trenches or other positions? You are vastly overestimating what drone operators would pick up on in a reasonable amount of time. Also a lone tank is a prime target for artillery strikes too - no matter what way you cut it its a huge risk putting a tank out on its own like that. There is a reason its not considered doctrine anywhere to do that kind of thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    40,000 dead since mid December when it reached 100,000

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭paul71


    1. The guilty party should be held Liable for damages/injury/death, that is a fair assessment.
    2. Next part is enforcement. Not possible to use Russian money to rebuild unless they are beaten out of the area to be rebuilt, this is clearly happening.
    3. The practical part is the application of the finance. Much of the money has already been seized from Russian Oligarchs so quite easy to do.

    So no that I have answers yet another of your deliberately leading questions let me ask you a real one.


    Why would you think Russia will not pick up the tab?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭zv2


    That's their Whataboutery policy in action, big time.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,927 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The Russian military stopped manufacturing most of there RPG's in the late 90's early noughties and basically exported them to anyone fighting the Yanks. The numbers they have are quite small it seems numbering in the thousands not ten of thousands.

    They are a number of variants however they have one major flaw they all weight 12ish kgs similar to the Javelin. A LAWS is 3ish kgs. They have not got enough to deploy at squad level.

    Just look at the LAWS the UA has 100k of them. If you have a million active military that is one to ten troops, but you would not be giving them to pilots, tank crews, artillery units etc.

    The drone would have been put up to see was there another tank or howitzers within 2-3km of the trench. Battlefield intelligence would tell you that generally such positions do not have ATM, whether it's ATGM or RPG's

    Basically it's battlefield risk analysis and comes back to how poorly equipped the average Russian troop, squad or army generally are.

    So basically the decision by a battlefield commander in such a situation was how do we attack it. In this case it was send in a fast moving tank to shoot up the trench.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Well , they certainly won't want to pick up the tab , I mean they've done 100s and 100s of billions of dollars of damage to Ukraine and it's infrastructure ..

    But at some point Russia will want to start "normalizing " relationships with the west .. and having sanctions removed , the imposition of secondary sanctions on companies and countries trading with Russia but not paying the "rebuild Ukraine levy " would help . .

    Oh and if Russia isn't making as much from exports ,then it doesn't have as much to reinvest in their military..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,158 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    What's the problem with "denouncing the Putin government " ? Or does ye're bravery not extend beyond raping and murdering civilians?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    The thing to watch is the approx $300bn of Russian offshore reserves currently frozen in Western banks.

    There has long been calls for this money to be seized and given to Ukraine as reparations to be used for reconstruction. It is however legally tricky...a space to be watched.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Well, I had one experience in Syria where I was stopped at a checkpoint, ( pretty much common experience there!!! ) and as things seemed to be dragging on, I asked the officer what was the problem, and he said that we were stopped because there were snipers operating from a tall building just ahead, and that they had requested a tank to come and take them out. And sure enough, a tank duly appeared (on its own) and levelled the building. If the snipers were still in it or not, I never found out, but there were no shots fired when we drove past it anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Who Says they are waiting for leopards for a summer offensive,



  • Posts: 7,946 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They found the Ukraine "invasion" maps AFTER they invaded Ukraine, great logic there Ivan. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The idea is to get Ukraine to waste it's missles shooting at balloons with deflectors on to trigger systems ,

    Cheap and effective for the most part,then came the large cruise missile strikes as reported



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭jmreire


    The Geneva Conventions are universal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    That's what losers do, silly billy.

    It's not like Russia will have a choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,303 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,661 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    The wheels will move quite slowly because you are talking about lots of different countries with actual working independent legal systems vs 1 country with Putin (or someone similar) who can snap his fingers/invite someone to a sit down and a cup of tea, but I don't think Russia is getting the frozen assets and money it has in the West back.

    So Russia will pay the piper eventually.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Russian State Duma deputy Dmitry Kuznetsov says he hopes the Belarus reunification with Russia can be solved soon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    There are many ways to skin a cat. I don't believe that Russia will pay a penny for Ukrainian reconstruction. The people who will bear the brunt of it will be the Ukrainian people. Foreign companies will come in and rebuild the place at the expense of Ukrainian resources. That's how these corporations operate. They don't care who foots the bill as long as they take the profits.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I have two issues with this line of discussion.

    1) People who make unnecessary assumptions about what the enemy may or may not have, and what they may or may not do, are quite likely to end up dead. History is littered with instances of tanks lost to things which 'according to the paper statistics' have no chance of causing damage, and just because the enemy has 'few' AT weapons doesn't mean you're not going to encounter one of those few. Heck, the one surviving working Tiger was captured by being knocked out by a weapon which wargame rules will often say don't have a chance of doing so.

    An Abrams in our company was M-killed by an RPG-7 or Namer fired from the frontal arc in Iraq. Lucky shot. Fortunately, the tank was not lost, because the tank was operating as part of a platoon, the fight was subsequently won, and we were then able to recover the tank which was then repaired and returned to service. That's why you don't make assumptions you can avoid, and why you don't travel alone.

    2) They still only sent one tank. You aren't supposed to say "It's only a bunch of dismounts, send just one tank, we don't need the others", you say "LT, go kill those dismounts." and the LT will take his platoon to do it. Overkill is not a thing, whilst operating as elements is. It also provides a bit of a backup in case what you think you're going up against actually isn't.


    I have no reason to believe that the move was not the most appropriate decision given the situation at the time. That's fair. But it is also not an indicator of everything being hunky-dory when moving a single tank around unsupported is the most appropriate decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    I would not underestimate the complexity of seizing state assets (i.e. Russian offshore reserves) and then giving them to another state. It's pretty much unprecedented in modern economic history.

    I also think Russian reparations (along the lines of say Versailles) are highly unlikely.

    A modern-day Marshall Plan for Ukraine, funded by the EU and US, seems much more probable in my view. In fact, it's already happening. Some of the aid being pledged is not direct military or humanitarian aid, but is rather for reconstruction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    Why do I think they won't pick up the tab? Because they won't think they have to. How are you going to make them pay? America wrecked Vietnam and to date hasn't paid a penny in war reparations and who's going to make them? Yes Russia have wrecked Ukraine but they're not going to see it that way.



This discussion has been closed.
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