Relics.

I liken it to asking your employer for something, and asking your fellow co-workers or managers for their support in joining you in asking your employer for whatever it is, like a change in policy or whatever. You don’t have to ask your co-workers or managers for their intercession, but it helps if they do. It’s kinda the whole idea behind the line in the liturgy that refers to saints and other people on whose intercession we rely for help to bring us* closer to God.

*not to mean you personally, because I don’t know your thinking on it, just that’s the idea is all.

But my point stands- surely it would make sense to pray to or through the less popular and therefore less busy saints, to get their help to get to the big man?

But your best chance of success would surely be by getting attention from the less popular saints who would have more time to listen?

Not really, seeing as Saints don’t publish their timetables. I mean, I suppose to use the analogy of the workplace I did earlier - there isn’t the same facility in religion to check a Saints or deity’s schedule before you make demands of their time. I’m sure there’s days when you’re up the walls in work and you’d still take calls from people who you don’t expect should have your schedule to hand?

Same sort of thing applies to religion, sure, it’d be convenient if I got a mail from St. Jude that said ‘Undeliverable’, and at least then I’d know, St. Jude is no longer available, or an Out of Office reply would be helpful, but in the same way I send a mail to someone, I trust they got the message and they’re working on it, but that doesn’t mean I should stop working on whatever it is myself.

That’s why the whole idea of an interventionist God or veneration of relics or the veneration of Saints and all those sorts of outward expressions of the faith to me just don’t mean all that much. I don’t relate to the idea of needing to display the veracity of my belief. To me it’s just something that should speak for itself, by my own actions, and not by depending upon the interventions of a deity or the Saints, but rather being able to also trust in other human beings such as family, friends and so on for support, as they rely on me for support in times when they need it. Otherwise, the way I see it, what’s the point if people can’t rely on each other and trust each other?

So what is the value add of the saint in this scenario? Why not go directly to the big man, who has unlimited time to listen? Or does the big man give priority to those who don’t bother him directly and work through an agency instead?

I honestly do not know. Your best bet to get the official answer is to ask a theologian or someone who studied theology for a while. I know a few Boardies do fit the bill. My own answer is that saints were incorporated into early Christisn belief as a way of incorporating the early pagan practice of worshipping different gods and goddesses- St Brigid being an excellent example of this given earlier in the thread. I'm not Catholic, or even Christian anymore. I am agnostic with a belief in a higher power which I don't expect anyone else to share.

It couldn’t be any more simple or easy to understand, even for people who aren’t religious, they understand the importance of support in doing anything or achieving anything. The whole idea of veneration of relics and saints is to give thanks to God -

At Vatican II, the Church recalled that the “saints have been traditionally honored in the Church and their authentic relics and images held in veneration.” Similar to how we might keep a cherished possession of a deceased family member, the Church has always preserved the relics of the martyrs and saints. By venerating relics, we give thanks to God for the saints’ holy lives and pray for the grace to imitate them. We can also ask saints to pray to God for us, for others, and for our special intentions. However, the Church is quick to remind us that a relic is not magical. It is not the actual object of the relic itself that brings grace or causes a miracle. Grace and healing come from God alone. 

https://www.saginaw.org/about-padre-pio-veneration-of-relics-and-more

People can do if they want? Again, a person doesn’t have to ask a Saint for their support, but they can do, or they don’t have to. Different strokes for different folks is all - just like some people are big into the whole idea of relics, other people aren’t. It’s hardly that difficult to understand some people are into some things, others aren’t?

It’s nothing to do with being religious or not, and it’s certainly not pedantry to point out that if you’re going to accuse someone of wrongdoing, you’d best have some credible evidence to support your claims. Otherwise you’re expecting people to agree with your claims on the basis of blind faith, that which you’re already critical of, quite rightly because it assumes your claims are beyond question and should be taken at face value as being true.

You can probably see why that would be an issue without me needing to state the obvious, but the implications of taking an accusation at face value without question can damage a person’s reputation at the very least, and lead to prejudice against people who share characteristics in common with that person at worst. If all you’ve got is an accusation of pedantry though, I can live with that.

It’s clearly not, and the idea of relying on what you think is common knowledge to support your claim is laughable tbh. You claimed earlier you don’t like to see people being made fools of, you’re going the wrong way about it IMO, especially when you think anyone should imagine your claims have any legitimacy on the basis that according to you it’s common knowledge.

What’s the difference between anyone practicing veneration of relics because they share certain beliefs in common with others, and your belief that Pio was a grifter is common knowledge? I’m asking because to me it looks like you’re arguing the standards you’re applying to other people can’t equally be applied to yourself. If the act of veneration of relics and Saints was somehow harmful, I’d probably understand why you’re critical of them, but if all it amounts to is that you don’t like pedants being fooled, I don’t think anyone needs to take your claims seriously.

What’s the point in going through an intermediary though? Is the big man more likely to listen to a saint than an ordinary punter?