Relics.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201794#Comment_120201794

Most of them have some sort of madness attached,though the Protestants seem like a reasonably sensible bunch to be fair.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201977#Comment_120201977

Why do you think that? All the prayers we use for saints ask the saint to intercede for us to God. Popular Saints in Ireland include Padre Pio St Anthony St Theresa of the Little Flower, Our Lady etc.

What specifically is it about Saints and Catholics that annoys you so intensely though kneemos? What kind of things are you prevented from doing because someone else is lighting a candle in front of a statue of St Joseph?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201977#Comment_120201977

I've heard people say "Pray to St. Anthony" when something is lost, most people think you pray to a saint and the saint does or doesn't help.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202051#Comment_120202051

I think we all know the candle is a money racket. The whole relic thing is macabre and a bit voodo.

Just don't like it any more than I'd like someone promising to tar my drive for a bargain price.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201977#Comment_120201977

You imagine wrongly so. Maybe post what you know rather than what you perceive. Or learn the difference between worshiping and asking for intercession.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202118#Comment_120202118

But lots of people dislike lots of things kneemos. Id probably dislike lots of things that are dear to you.

The difference between me and you though is I don’t let other peoples interests and beliefs bother me unless the interests are impacting on me. (People spending money on candles doesn’t affect you kneemos).

And I certainly don’t allow other peoples interests to bother me to the extent where I’d be calling for for their interests to be curtailed in some way.

”I don’t understand the interest in rugby and it annoys me that people spend money on going to rugby matches and buying rugby paraphernalia. I think it’s high time that rugby be forgotten about and people follow something else instead. Something I believe in”.

Candles aren’t delivered to churches for free. Did you think they were? Do you think that diocese doesn’t have to pay insurance in connection with the candles? Who takes away the used candles? When a parishioner goes into the church to light a candle they expect to find the church lit, warm and clean. Who pays for that kneemos? How much do you think the diocese makes from candles?

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202248#Comment_120202248

I suppose you could liken it to Homeopathy or fortune telling.

If you believe you might well ask what's the problem,but other people can see the issue.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202149#Comment_120202149

Catholicsm is one of those subjects on SM that people like the OP who know absolutely nothing about it are the most likely to start threads posting absolute nonsense like this one here.

Then when someone who does have a good insight comes along and corrects them they dismiss the knowledgeable person as an irrelevance instead of taking the factual information on board and using it as a learning moment.

It’s like someone who knows nothing about Manchester United suddenly starting a thread about how the club should be run in their opinion and then a Man Utd lifelong fan jumps in and corrects them only to be dismissed as “pedantic”. It’s funny really.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202295#Comment_120202295

well what is the issue exactly kneemos as you see it? People go to church and go to mass, pray and light candles and leave and go home. What is the issue? As opposed for example to people flying to wales to the rugby match and spending their money over there?

Have you got an “issue” with that too? What other interests of other people that don’t impact you in any way do you have “issues” with? What do you think should be done about these bad habits other people have?

I see you also think that people should be prevented from indulging in fortune tellers and homeopathy. Quite a few concerns you have kneemos.

What are your own interests kneemos? I might have some issues with your interests but I don’t know what they are…..

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202338#Comment_120202338

I don't like to see folk being fooled.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202427#Comment_120202427

Fooled in what way? What evidence have you seen that people are being fooled by belief in the power of the sacramentals?

Do you worry constantly about all the adherents of all the other religions being “fooled” too or is it fair to say that you are only “worried” in particular about Catholics?

Would it be fair to say that you’re not actually worried about people being “fooled” by Catholicism kneemos. That you don’t actually care about Catholics at all. That it’s just a fact that you have an almost fetishist irrational hatred of Catholics. Catholics who have absolutely no impact on your day to day life at all. Would you not need to get that in check?

Lots of Irish Liverpool fans went to see Liverpool play today in Wolverhampton.

It cost them a lot of money.

Liverpool were thrashed by Wolves.

are you worried about them being “fooled” too?

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202526#Comment_120202526

Don't ask about proof you're on a losing streak.

No problems with Catholics I'm on the books myself,but you don't get a choice. Do you?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202051#Comment_120202051

Would it not make more sense to pray to the LESS popular saints who are more likely to have time and attention to intercede with the big man on your behalf?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202556#Comment_120202556

You started a thread about how you think that a stop should be put to people venerating relics. You’ve said that you don’t like people being “fooled”.

If you say people are being “fooled” then the onus is on YOU to prove that they are being fooled, defrauded, hoodwinked in some way.

You know that if you make allegations like this that you need to have evidence of some kind to back that allegation up.

So come on. Where is your evidence kneemos??

Also, “losing streak”?! Let’s be honest. I’m handing you your a**e on a plate here and I’m holding back. 😂

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202567#Comment_120202567

How kind of you to come to the assistance of poor kneemos who started yet another anti catholic thread but is getting a bit of a hiding.

Can you explain to him that if he makes allegations that people are being defrauded that he needs to provide evidence to support that? Thanks.

NIMAN

When I was younger, always used to hear about a mitt of Padre Pios, which someone in the Derry area owned.

Often ill peoples relatives would try to get hold of said mitt, in the hope it would save their loved ones.

Some people swore it saved lives.

But I have no doubt it was just a placebo. If you survived an illness, I would say it was more the great work of the medical staff plus the treatment that saved you. Not the mitt. But many only thought it was the magical powers of the mitt.

My own mother always believed in such nonsense, despite her own sister getting said mitt, and still dying.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202567#Comment_120202567

In Catholicism people don’t pray TO Saints though, the point TT was making is that the saints mentioned are just the most popular saints in Ireland, who are asked to intercede, or to pray for the person or persons, as opposed to popular saints in other countries who people ask for their intercession or prayer -

Intercession or intercessory prayer is the act of praying to a deity on behalf of others, or asking a saint in heaven to pray on behalf of oneself or for others.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercession

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202585#Comment_120202585

Well there's no proof that relics or saints help in any way. What more do I need to prove?

Can't really present evidence for a negative.

Leg End Reject

Why does an apparently omnipresent God need saints as middlemen? Why do believers need to ask saints to pray for them when they could just pray to God themselves?

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202642#Comment_120202642

Then you shouldn’t have alleged that people were being “fooled” then, should you?

Every day is an opportunity to learn something new.

Don’t make allegations of wrong doing when you can’t back it up.

At least you’ve admitted now that you made that allegation with no foundation whatsoever.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202644#Comment_120202644

He doesn’t, and they do pray to God themselves, and they ask the Saints to join them in their prayers, in accordance with the whole idea of the Communion of the Catholic Church.

kneemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202700#Comment_120202700

That's some strange logic. I just said there's no proof that saints or relics help at all and that I'm sorry I have to explain is why I'm critical.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202705#Comment_120202705

I don't get this, why wouldn't a benevolent god listen to and respond to an individual's solo prayer? Having to add in saints is like begging.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202644#Comment_120202644

God doesn’t “need” middlemen. Some Catholics admire certain saints. My mother for example has great admiration for St Thomas More. She feels that in prayer she can ask St Thomas More to “pray for me”.

“St Thomas More pray for me”. Is her prayer.

But it’s not obligatory for any Catholic to ask any Saint to intercede for them.

People find it comforting. Why any of you would object to anyone seeking comfort in this way is both puzzling and disconcerting to me.

Sneer and mock away to your hearts content. It doesn’t bother me. It’s a free world (just about…barely… try saying that a man can’t magically turn into a woman (a biological fact) on SM and see how you get on). Just don’t suggest that people should be prevented from practicing their faith, or lack of it.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202727#Comment_120202727

I'm not objecting, sneering nor mocking. I've just learned from this thread that you don't pray directly to saints, I just don't understand the logic.

I have no problem with people practicing their religion, and my intention isn't to mock although I was amused by the Padre Pio glove because I didn't actually know what relics were either.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202608#Comment_120202608

Did your mother get comfort from procuring the mitt for her dying sister? Did her sister get comfort from the mitt? The answer to those questions is almost certainly “yes”. So the mitt didn’t cure your aunt, but it gave her and your mother some comfort, and it certainly didn’t harm either of them.

You refer to your mother in the past tense. It’s strange how you would disrespect her then by referring to her beliefs as nonsense when her belief was a great crutch to her probably for all her adult life. I don’t understand that at all. But you do you as the kids say.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202723#Comment_120202723

He wouldn’t respond to it, not directly to the person themselves anyway… if God starts talking back that’s when you’re really in trouble 😂

I’ll be honest, it’s a concept I struggle with myself, basically the whole idea that everything that happens is part of God’s plan. Like when something happened and I was told it’s part of God’s plan, I said it straight out “well it’s a shìt plan!”, because I struggled with the idea that an omnipotent God wouldn’t intervene and would allow someone to die. There are numerous issues with the whole concept of an interventionist God, reasons which are more obvious to a non-believer -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_intervention

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202749#Comment_120202749

I see. Sorry about that. I took you up wrong. The whole thing about the relics can be quite macabre if you didn’t grow up with it. My brother is named after an English martyr whose preserved hand is in a glass box in a church in the north of England for 500+ years.

I’m sure you’d find it macabre but do you also find the Egyptian mummies macabre? What’s the difference?

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202790#Comment_120202790

The difference for me is that Egyptian mummies are part of history, I'd visit them and Egyptian artefacts in a museum but wouldn't attach religious or miraculous connotations to them.

Now, the hand, while certainly macabre, is more tangible than a glove. I would actually visit that out of curiosity.

While I'd heard about relics I didn't know what they were, and I did think that people prayed directly to saints, so I have learned something.

I'm rather envious of those with faith because I know it does bring solace during difficult times, bereavement and for believers at the end of their own lives. For me the lack of logic and proof is an insurmountable stumbling block, and the only answer I've ever gotten in response to that is "That's why it's called faith". My brain just won't process that.

Sardonicat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202644#Comment_120202644

Indeed. And what makes asking a St for something not a prayer and asking God directly a prayer? I never understood the difference my self. So are we just chattin' with the saints, like, and when we talk to God it's called a prayer? Seems a bit pedantic to me.