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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,043 ✭✭✭Polar101


    "As for President Putin being "very bad" I can tell you each and every leader in rhe western alliance against him is a hell of a lot worse."

    Most of them haven't invaded neighbouring countries, though. There's a reason why Putin's circle of friends has been reduced to the likes of North Korea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,086 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    Vuhledar.

    This is likely accurate, the Russians have been very quiet about this sector in the last few days for obvious reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭vixdname


    Why the need to wear oversized underwear though ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    There are a few of them on here that think the ratio is 10:1 in favour of Ukraine - seemly because they spend most of the day watching drone footage of Russians getting blown to bits and have a completely 1 sided view of the war.

    1 Leopard 2 would destroy 50 Russian tanks...

    However to have similar nonsense from UCC professor is shocking...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,416 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Exactly. If I was a betting man I'd say Bakhmut falls in 3 weeks but I'd gladly take 3 months or never. All we can do is wait and see but I never expected it to see February under Ukrainian control.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    Yeah it is. This sort of idea is something I was reading about in an effort to try to understand why Russia has been behaving the way it has for the last twenty years of whatever it is. Specifically, I read Modern Russian Politics, by a lecturer in UL. It is an interesting book that looks at a lot of different dimensions, but the discussion of this idea felt like an ah-ha moment for me, as I felt it gave me a bit more insight into something that generally confuses me.

    I don't think he referred to the term cultural genocide, but said something along the lines of Russia/Putin perceiving a war of civilizations, and that their civilization is under existential threat. A cultural colonization. And obviously the americanization of a lot of countries is a thing. There is even a song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers about it. It just isn't seen as anything other than a cultural phenomenon to most people.

    To us in general their view makes no sense, so we tend to dismiss it as being unreasonable and largely deception and propaganda. However, one important thing to recognise in this mindset is the idea that they see themselves involved in a war with the West for a long time, which is being fought in many different dimensions. An actual physical military war for them is just a different phase in the overarching conflict.

    My own frame of reference for it is to think of the game Civilization 3. In this game you could influence rival cities and even colonize them if your cultural influence in the area was stronger than theirs. You didn't need to be engaged in a war to do this. So that is my concept of the Russian concept of a war of civilizations. I don't know how accurate it is, and I don't agree with their world view at all, but I do think that only by trying to actually understand their view can any constructive dialog be achieved outside of what can be physically forced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭Field east


    Whatever about comparing various soverign leaders re which were the worst/ are ‘bad’ I think that we have to go back to the 2nd world war to see such utter physical destruction and the deliberate targeting of non miletary buildings/infrastructure. that was over 80 years ago- have we not moved on since. It is shocking to see the utter levelling of cities , towns and villages , field after field pockmarked with bombs. My general understanding of wars - especially between nations is DIRECT combat. ARMY fighting ARMY .

    But Putin is bombing, attacking, mining anything that moves and anything that does not move and if the Ukr are seen to be still benefiting from something it will attack/bomb that also - be it in earth or otherwise. And the more Ukr killed - miletary or otherwise the better. What other leader has gone to such lengths in the current CENTUARY and get away with it. Please tell



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,222 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I'd imagine there will be more and more "no's' to equipment if Russia starts making more gains. It's a hard one for the west because what do you do when you turn convinced Ukraine will more than likely lose?

    You don't want to risk your equipment either being destroyed or falling in to Russian hands.

    Ukraine has to keep the west convinced they can win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling



    Why couldn't one Leopard or Abrams tank take out up 40 + Soviet era tanks.

    We know Russian losses in men , vehicles armor and aircraft haven't been seen since WW2 ,is it 10:1 possibly yes , could be 8:1 but people on here will argue anything to make it look like Russia are winning.

    Post edited by Gatling on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,303 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    In WW2 the German V Soviets union soldier killed in fighting was 1-2 to3.5 depending on figures sourced. Factor in that Hitler's interference and insistence on holding unviable positions as well as counterattacking when an army should be retreating especially in the last few months of the war

    No Zulu's with spears there. Russia has a history of not caring about death ratios.

    WW1 the ratio was 1-2.5 approximately.

    A leopard dose not change its spots

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,804 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not really sure what point you are trying to make?

    There is only one aggressor here - Russia.

    The US is a signatory to the Budapest agreement, and Russia's actions in Ukraine are a violation of the NATO-Russia Founding Act and the Helsinki agreements which it incorporates.

    One of the reasons Russia is invading is to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO in the future, which is Ukraine's right as a sovereign nation as outlined in the above agreements to choose its own security arrangements. That's what it has to do with them. That doesn't make the US or NATO aggressors.

    Russia's actions in violations of those agreements is proof that the justifications cited by Russia for its aggression - and repeated here by those who don't subject it to scrutiny - are without merit or foundation.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    They claim to be fighting in the Dachas South East of Ugledar, but I havent seen any sources claim they have gained a foothold in Ugledar proper yet (the dense high-rise bit). They all seem to make a distinction between Ugledar and the dachas as if B is not a part of A.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    realitykeeper threadbanned



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,358 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    In other words the russian government doctrine believe they are The Borg from Star Trek.

    But individually Russian people crave the western life, Los Angelus, London, Milan. Someone once said one way to end the war before it started was for the EU to issue every russian invader in Ukraine an EU passport. How bloody true that probably would have been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,783 ✭✭✭✭josip


    What kind of constructive dialog can you have with a country that invades its neighbour and behaves as Russia has done (murder, rape, loot, kidnap, oppress,..) ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    How have you come to that conclusion?

    Russia is the only one making progress - slow and very costly but still progress.

    They will throw another 150k men into the fight in the next few weeks which will have received 4-5 months training unlike most of the fodder that was thrown into the fire over the last 4 months. The next few months will be extremely difficult for Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,303 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    They rape there own

    Will they have 4-5 months training. That would mean they were being trai ed since last September.

    Anyway manpower is not where it is at. As the winter ends western military technology will start to come into play. Fixed positions during the winter gave the Russian a slight edge, however within 3 months mobility will come into play again.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 205 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    True, things have gone beyond that point right now alright. It's more hindsight at this stage. A bad combination of two things was involved. One was failing to recognize that they were becoming more and more hostile in stance. The other was empowering them by buying lots of their fossil fuels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    He's likely right though.

    As I said last year it's *infantile* to think that Ukraine by itself with no other troops from other countries is going to beat Russia in warfare. A negotiated peace last year with autonomy for Donbass and constitutional ban on joining NATO would have been the best outcome for everyone except weapons company shareholders.

    The propaganda is strong though. NATO/UAF have almost total dominance on that front.

    The main thing that people are clinging to at this point is the *apparent* success of the territory capture Ukraine had mid/late 2022 when in fact what they paid for in lives and equipment wasn't worth what they got - a morale boost but most of their reserves at the time expended. Next morale bump was the promise, as that's all it is for now, of new game changing hardware. The horrible reality continues, the daily chewing up of a dug in force facing overwhelming firepower.

    Didn't have to be this way.

    Who will be blamed?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That was an interesting take alright. All leaders are a mixed bag, but to believe that before and beyond this war one who silences, imprisons, even murders opponents in plain sight, controls the media, bans any protest and insists workers go on "official" marches of support is comparable to someone like Macron is beyond daft. For a start Macron was voted in and can and will be voted out in time. How many of these "western alliance leaders" have been in unopposed power for over 20 years? That would be none of them. Compare and contrast.

    Russia was always "outside" of Europe in many ways. European, but not. And not just because of things like the Mongol invasion period. Because of position and culture, in many ways they remained European alright, but more pre modern era feudalist Europe with a society of peasants, clergy and nobility holding onto the older ways more and for longer than the rest of Europe.

    The Renaissance largely passed Russia by and it had no Reformation, and little of the Enlightment made its home there, what did was in cities like Moscow, but her sheer size meant it didn't spread much beyond. Leaders like Peter and Catherine tried to bring that more on board, but it was heavily resisted beyond the city parlour and powdered wig set. Even though their royal house was as inbred and cross bred with the other European royal houses, it was still a nation apart. They also came much later to the industrial Revolution and remained an agrarian society for longer too. In some ways Ireland was similar, but being physically closer to Europe and being far more influenced by same throughout it came out of that more quickly.

    Plus unlike other European powers who created empires beyond European shores(mainly because batin' the bollocks out of each other closer to home was bad for biz), Russia for many reasons, lack of ports one of them, created her empire across land to the east, which added a different flavour compared to Europe's "New World". It also meant they still had and have their old European empire right down to today.

    Now the rise of the Soviet Union changed all this remarkably and impressively rapidly. Russia modernised and industrialised within decades and very much looked to the moderne, but much of the old style remained under the surface and that East/West Them/Us fracture grew on their already fertile soil. As did their old style imperialism. For a brief period in the 90's after that all went south, there was a hope that the fracture would close and it did to some degree, but again the old style came back.

    Much of what we're dealing with today is down to that fracture and it's widening ever further. The problem for them is try as they might to lean outside the West, many of their "friends" have issues with Russia and they'll likely grow. The Chinese were always dubious of them, even when they were both reading from the same little red books and now that China is a global power heavily invested in the same West and vice versa there's not much of an opening for Russia and this war has likely closed it further. Russia bet much of her economics on selling into Europe and the West and China can read a map of their pipelines and see it.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭macraignil




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    From "Reality Keeper" --

    "After staging a violent coup to overthrow the legitimate government of Ukraine, and having pretended to agree to the Minsk agreement to buy time, the US and Ukraine started developing biological weapons right on the border with Russia in preparation for the war NATO ultimately provoked".


    So there we have it folks --

    Incidentally, who's stupid enough to "develop biological weapons" on an obvious potential FRONT LINE !!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Utter nonsense,

    Did you just come in to Tell us about Russia isn't at fault it's all a conspiracy theory .

    One man is to blame and only one country will win Ukraine



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,322 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I'd largely agree Eoinbn. Russia royally screwed up at the start and lost half of their initial gains, but have taken and held large chunks of Donbas and the land bridge to Crimea and are ploughing more and more men into those areas. IMHO Ukraine retaking Crimea is pie in the sky. Much of Donbas ditto. The land bridge between them is up for grabs but unless the Russian defence collapses there we'd be looking at an even bigger slog and loss of life than has already happened from the Russian's takeover of it. Either way I fear it's going to be a long slog with more losses for a long time.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,078 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Well it's not the 19C anymore. You need to look at recent US/UK engagements and those losses as the equipment, training and tactics more closely resembles that than spears vs rifles.

    When the US took on 600 Wagner mercs in Syria, the kill ratio was 0:200+



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Don't expect much from the new arrivals,

    Biolabs conspiracy theories and experts in warfare



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,819 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Doubtful, I wouldn't put much stock in someone who fawned over Stalin

    Russia had been fighting Ukraine for 8 years prior. During which time the Ukrainians completely changed from Russian style military doctrine, to a Western/US style, and became significantly better as a fighting force.

    A negotiated peace last year with autonomy for Donbass and constitutional ban on joining NATO would have been the best outcome for everyone except weapons company shareholders.

    Russia has never tried to genuinely negotiate, so far they have just used talks as a ruse, and systematically broken international treaties. They annexed Crimea, and started a proxy war in East Ukraine. Probably the best outcome would have been if Ukraine joined NATO prior to 2013, which was completely within it's rights as a sovereign nation, and prevented all of this.

    The propaganda is strong though. NATO/UAF have almost total dominance on that front.

    The US warned of the invasion and were shown to be correct. So far most Western analysis and information has been relatively spot on for a war. Ukraine and Russia engage in their own forms of propaganda, with Russia, of course, at the extreme end of the spectrum.

    The main thing that people are clinging to at this point is the *apparent* success of the territory capture Ukraine had mid/late 2022 when in fact what they paid for in lives and equipment wasn't worth what they got - a morale boost but most of their reserves at the time expended. Next morale bump was the promise, as that's all it is for now, of new game changing hardware. The horrible reality continues, the daily chewing up of a dug in force facing overwhelming firepower.

    There's no "apparent" about it. The Ukrainians held back one of the most powerful militaries in the world and have obliterated Russia armor at a rate of at least 4 to 1. All of this has been done with their own man-power. Someone can be sent all the military equipment in the world, it doesn't mean jack if they don't fight with it (Afghanistan).

    They have one of the world's largest navies cowering in the Black sea and sank it's flagship - without a navy. They have a tiny air-force, yet have denied Russia air superiority. They don't have cruise missiles like their enemy. They can't strike at infrastructure and logistics bases in Russian territory. They aren't just fighting one of the largest militaries in the world, they are doing so with one arm tied behind their back. Be interesting to see how they'd perform with proper equipment (MBTs, ATACMS, F16's, etc)

    Russia is still a highly potent force, gradually they are learning and adapting, I wouldn't be surprised to see them make gains in the short term. However they are having to empty prisons, force people to fight, rely on mercenaries, ask North Korea for shells, use cold war missiles, dig up ancient tanks and equipment - all of that whilst losing their main source of revenue, having to sell resources for rock bottom prices to the East, being heavily sanctioned and a global pariah.

    In terms of morale, Russians are fighting for money, the Ukrainians are fighting for their lives, families, culture and identity - no contest there

    Didn't have to be this way.


    Who will be blamed?

    Putin, He is the decision-maker in Russia, and decided to invaded a neighbouring country in a war of choice (which he can exit at any time).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Take your pick why Russia invaded ukraine

    Screenshot_20230131_113826_Chrome.jpg




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,717 ✭✭✭storker


    You left out these...

    image.png

    Totally evil. Comrade Putin is right.



This discussion has been closed.
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