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Did the Americans put a man on the moon?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    A reminder: the "physics based debate" was you arguing that rockets cannot work in space because there is no air and ended up with you tying yourself into a knot when it was pointed out that your concept of physics contradicted itself.

    You promptly ignored this and changed the subject.


    And yes too many people would need to be involved in your conspiracy.

    You are claiming that all scientists are involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,301 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I think that's a recording of my 20th attempt to land on the Mun in Kerbal Space program



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,301 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    This video is awesome BTW. Such an incredible achievement, no wonder the credulous don't believe it happened

    (by credulous I mean too ready to believe things with no evidence, while the moon landings were incredible, which literally means impossible to believe even if the evidence to support them are overwhelming. It's a funny juxtaposition of meanings that make me chuckle)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Phone and GPS signals have nothing to do with a view of the sky.

    Really? Get a watch with GPS built-in, or your car sat nav, or a phone and turn off mobile data and leave the GPS turned on. Now go to the bottom floor of a multi story car park, or a church, or pretty much any building with a solid roof. (don't drive your car into the building, do that test in a car park), or even a dense forest in the summer when there are plenty of leaves on the trees.


    Do you get a location fix based on the GPS signal?


    You didn't explain to us how many of your ground based GPS transmitters there are, or where exactly they are located? Also GPS most definitely does work in the middle of oceans, so how do the ground based transmitters work for the middle of oceans?



    Edit: ... And how do undersea cables make mobile phones work exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    another great video from Astrum.

    It details the successes of the recent Artemis missions and has some great footage from it.

    Particularly ones at 9:09 and 10:42 that I think are pretty relevant given how Markus's original appearance on the forum was falsely claiming there were no pictures of Earth from space.

    According to him, all of the things in the video are fake, and all of the people involved are part of a conspiracy to keep people away from realising the Earth is flat.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,806 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    All the scandals and leaks about Trump. Likewise Johnson. US presidents can't even keep secret documents without being found out.

    But a gigantic conspiracy involving millions of people, who never gossip, where documents are never found - no problem whatsoever. A walk in the park.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,161 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Yes, planes go through radar blackspots over expanses of ocean. This should not happen if there are satellites there to communicate with. Why do you think they couldn't find the wreckage of MH370? Do you think a whale stole the wreckage?

    The ground based transmitters are the same ones used by network providers - they are dotted all over the country. Did you not know this? And yes they do use undersea cables for 99% of telecommunications (your mobile phone is a form of telecommunication btw). The 1% they credit to satellites is purely to appease people like you who think GPS and phone signals are only possible because of unmanned spaceships.

    This isn't even conspiracy related, this is common knowledge that I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time telling you about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,475 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There are satellites. In orbit.

    You ignore any question put to you on this point because you know you cannot refute it and continue with your impossible tale.

    Proof positive of the falsehood of your theory.

    So maybe you are wasting your time (the words are yours) because your theory cant pass a basic test and everyone reading the thread is aware of it.

    Also you disproved your own theory by posting a video shot in orbit.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,806 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    As asked before, what about satellites we can see with the naked eye (or binoculars), what are they according to you?

    Likewise, you claim all International Space Station footage is shot underwater, okay, how is the below 50 minutes of footage "underwater", he is breathing, his clothes aren't wet, how do you rationalise it yourself?




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Radar is not GPS.

    Radar will tell you where something else is, and yes the range that radar can see is limited because it is ground based, or ship or plane based so they can detect other objects or obstacles.

    You do not have radar on your phone, watch or car.

    GPS tell you where you are on the surface of the planet, and makes a pretty good guess for altitude as well but the triangulation isn't as good in the vertical. GPS does not tell anyone else about your location, there is no way to use GPS to detect other objects (that is what you use radar for).

    GPS transmitters are most definitely NOT in those masts that you see dotted around the landscape. Those are for mobile phone voice and data signals.

    Mobile phone masts can be used for triangulation by phones to give you a rough ground location, but it is way less accurate than GPS... But is a bit quicker so when you open the maps app on your phone it will initially use the triangulation from mobile phone mast locations to approximate your location... Then the more precise location will normally pop up a short time later as you get the lock on multiple GPS satellite signals.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,490 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It must also be noted that Rolls Royce were tracking the MH370 engines via ACARS and track them when cruising via satellite and ground based comms, since MH370, this has been enabled by default and the pings are much more frequent (it was optional before and was only tracked at specific times, take-off/landing and after cruising at high altitude for a set amount of time).

    The poster is trying to use MH370 to show that there are black spots when what occurred with MH370 has now eliminated those black spots by having better processes around tracking (the plane must be able to make the comms, so it doesn't stop a disappearance, just narrows the search field significantly).

    The corollary of course is that on a flat earth, those distances/black spots don't exist in the first place and ground based comms could always be used, so they have inadvertently proven that the earth is round (the pilot should have been spending their time circling to maintain the illusion of distance).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,161 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    I had this debate with you before and it goes down the same idiotic line of thinking as the moonlanding footage "This was shown live. It's impossible to have footage like this in a single-take. We don't have the technology to fake this". For as long as you can't let go of these presumptions, it's a waste of time discussing it with you. This footage is shot over weeks/months using different techniques and is heavily edited and revised over and over until it is suitable for public viewing.

    If you can hear a buzzing in the background (like the one you linked) then it is a parabolic flight - often requiring many of them that they seamlessly stitch together. You can even see at 11:30 he goes off balance and pulled towards the wall. It's clear evidence of a parabolic flight.

    If there is no buzzing then it is a greenscreen with harnesses. They will always use this for interviews where they will have 1-8 of the clowns lined up with a microphone. They may have shot these live in the past but they made so many gaffes/blunders that they don't do them any more. They replaced them with school Q&As where the children have fixed questions to ask. This allows them to just playback a heavily edited video to give a sense that they are doing a live interview. You can't see the harnesses as they are edited out computationally (unless they mistakenly miss one) but sometimes you will see them grab what looks like thin air but really it's the harness. Or other times you will hear a snap or something in the rigging going wrong...




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Nonsense arguments that have have trotted out before.

    Weightlessness during parabolic flights last seconds. There is no why for them to record such an interview in bursts of seconds between equally long bursts of high g when they have to go up again.

    Like last time and with all of your previous claims, you contradict your own argument.

    You are claiming that they are "seemlessly" editing things together. But you also argue that they leave in mistakes like people being pulled or a harness showing. Why didn't they edit these things out? If they didn't then they weren't "seemless".


    And again, you fail to explain why they would even do this. You can't explain why they would spend billions and add thousands of people to set up these videos to trick a handful of people who watch them. That's absurd and seems more like you are desperate for clues than have an actual coherent theory.


    You will of course ignore all of these points and the points other have made because conspiracy theorists are desperate to stop and kill any discussion here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,806 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Okay. You seem to have entirely missed the first question again

    (what about satellites we can see with the naked eye (or binoculars), what are they according to you?)

    Thanks for trying to address the 2nd question, so according to you the ISS is a giant set on a plane that does parabolic flight or it's green screen sets with harnesses.

    You know you can buy an off the shelf telescope or binoculars and see it for yourself, lots of people do it, what are they seeing according to you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,161 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    First you say "satellites we can see" then you say "lots of people do it". Have you seen them yourself or not?

    I'm guessing it is a trustworthy friend of yours who saw it, not you yourself. Would he be willing to share any footage/images he acquired?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Yes. Have seen Iridium satellite flares a couple of times myself, but I think that set of satellites have since been retired. There is a bunch of other stuff that you can see, and there are apps available which will tell you when different things will be visible from your location. Helps if you are not in the middle of a light polluted city at the time.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can literally see the ISS if you're bothered to try.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    This troll must be fois grais at this stage



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,806 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Yes I've seen satellites on a clear night with the naked eye and I'm not any sort of astronomer.

    Here's info on it

    There are countless videos of satellites, the star-link satellites and the ISS orbiting from people on the internet, just go to Youtube.

    Again none of this is to "convince you", you are way, way beyond that, you will just claim it's CGI, they are paid, it's fake, etc as usual. I'm just trying to understand how you rationalise to yourself what these "things" are up there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Why ask for footage that you will just declare as fake without any evidence?

    You are clearly trying to argue that anyone who claims to have seen satellites is lying and is part of a conspiracy.

    But again you are jamming up and killing the discussion by avoiding this point and by avoiding others.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    When do we receive our payment for being part of the conspiracy of people who have seen satellites with the naked eye, or taken pictures with basic camera and telescope setups?

    @Markus Antonius Either I'm part of the conspiracy, or there is some elaborate setup to make the satellites or ISS visible to me and also my family and friends around the globe who have also seen these things. And I do mean all around the globe as it includes a friend who spent a year in Antarctica... But I suppose Antarctica is also fake isn't it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,161 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Right, so both of you have seen satellites or ISS with the naked eye and have many friends (including one in Antarctica) who has also seen it.

    Surely, given you are all so fond of waiting around to see one of these, one of you managed to nab a few seconds of footage for all our benefit?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,606 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Here's an idea, stand up from your computer, go outside, look up at a clear nights sky for a while and you are bound to see a satellite yourself. It's as difficult as craning your neck back and looking up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,806 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Why would I record footage of a passing satellite in case, in the future, I came across one person on the internet who needed proof that satellites existed?

    There's plenty of footage on Youtube. You can literally see the ISS yourself, with the naked eye, as it passes over on a clear night.

    Here are websites explaining how

    I expect you to automatically respond with "lol, it's not real", "lol thats fake", etc, however if you do go bother to go out and see it, my question is: what are you seeing according to you?

    Remember, this is something real you can verify yourself.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Because I didn't have my decent camera on me at the time, and other people have taken way better pictures than I could. Seeing with my own eyes was simpler than setting up the camera for a couple of seconds shot. But if you want to try it yourself here is the instructions :

    Go and have a look and see what you see. Then have another look another evening from another location.

    Then get back to us with an explanation of how they faked it for the spot that you were standing in at the time, obviously don't tell us when or where you are going to go first as "they" would then know and just send someone out with a long fishing rod to dangle above your head at the right moment to fool you.



  • Administrators Posts: 13,851 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    @Markus Antonius - quit it. It's no longer funny. I personally have seen the ISS a number of times. On a clear night it is very easy to see by simply looking up. It passed over on Christmas Eve a few years ago and my children saw it, believing it to be Santa's sleigh.

    This ridiculous line of argument from you stops now. It's tedious and idiotic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Notice how we're still waiting for an answer as to what satellites and the ISS actually are.

    So far Markus can only resort to complete denial of that evidence. (Though he Is still doing his level best to avoid stating that directly.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,606 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    When the only thing stopping someone from getting the evidence they need is looking at the night sky, you definitely have to start questioning the motives behind their argument.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,249 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    "dont look up" was a documentary according to markus :P



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    That's the thing that Markus demonstrates very nicely.

    Often conspiracy claims are incredibly easy to debunk by only googling to see if something is actually true or not. Conspiracy theorists aren't interested is testing their beliefs or seeing if they are true or not.

    He also demonstrates the very hypocritical point that conspiracy theorists don't seem all that bothered by a hole in their theory they can't explain.

    Markus came into this thread specifically and this forum generally declaring us non-conspiracy theorists can't explain something, so therefore there must be a conspiracy.

    But when he is unable to explain the hole in his theory caused by easily visible evidence, that's not a problem for him.


    And on top of that, he is not at all interested in discussing or even acknowledging this hole in the theory. Doesn't want to try and find an explanation for it. Doesn't want to try out different speculative answers. Definitely doesn't want to consider how that hole might make other people not believe as he does.



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