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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    People were saying the same before Kherson and the area around Kharkiv were liberated. That fundamentally alters any framework for negotiation and its why nations fight.

    Saying "all wars end in negotiation so let's skip straight to there" is historically obtuse. Most conflicts do (not all) but the outcome of the armed conflict is what drives the negotiation. You can't just skip one step. There is no common ground to negotiate over because Ukraine is not willing to leave its citizens under Russian occupation to be abducted, raped and murdered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Itsame Mario


    I suggest you do your own research. But that's probably a bit much to ask isn't it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Minorthreat


    The claim of forced conscription in Transcarpathia was made by the Hungarian online publication PestiSracok.

    The article was published 3 or 4 day's ago. Search PestiSracok and you should find it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Itsame Mario


    Of course a stronger position on the battlefield gives you a stronger hand in negotiations. I personally don't think time is on Ukraines side so would think negotiations now would make more sense for them, but who knows maybe they'll push Russia back to its borders before it loses too many more men.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes they used Himars with the old m31 rockets to cut of the supplies and then spearheaded trough russian defences forcing them to flee and regroup across the river,in a combined arms operation.

    And yes they always use artillery to pave the way for a armoured spearhead,thats one of the key elements,and also why they recived more mobile artillery that can follow the armoured battalions.

    After that Ukraine also recived the m30a1 rockets that are ment for open terrain and trenches like in Donbas,and will most likely pave the way for another combined arms operation,in spring.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And it's another method that daftly expensive, a quagmire of time, training and money maintenance and far more vulnerable than the various missile weapons AA/AT/AP systems. For a start the F-16 has notoriously delicate landing gear which requires high quality and highly vulnerable runways to operate from. I would still say 11 such systems ae far better than 10 and 1 F-16 and would do more actual damage.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    and pigs will be requesting take off clearance if and when that happens. This is total pie in the sky fantasy stuff at the moment and for the foreseeable, unless something radically and I do mean radically changes.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,005 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    What is this historical revisionism already?

    The Russian retreat out of Kherson was (sadly) with few casualties due to the Ukrainian advance not coming close to the Russians as they retreated over the Dnieper. There was no spearhead through defences forcing them to flee across, it was like a month long evacuation from Kherson, first they looted, then moved some civilians, admin, emptied the banks, etc, then finally pulled the troops across.

    It was planned as a result of the excellent work of HIMARs making their supply lines too precarious, but it wasnt a combined arms epic success that spearheaded through their defenses and made them run with their tails between their legs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Itsame Mario


    I'd say it matters to the dead and their families. How this will end is anyone's guess. Maybe Ukraine drive Russia out. Maybe Russia take over all of Ukraine. Maybe there's a settlement borne out-of negotiations. My only desire is to see this war end.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Only one side is getting better equipment and an increase in properly trained men.

    There is no appetite in Ukraine for abandoning their land or their people. Zelenky has no mandate for negotiations.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The 100k figure was corrected the following day by a uUkranian official.

    You don't say? Well I never... Of course they're going to "correct" such figures, just like the Russians do. If one were to take either side's numbers as gospel both say they've lost far less and the others are piling bodies up like matchesticks.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Would it be possible to change the thread title- and only allow posters who support Ukraine, and their defense of their occupied territories.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Rather disrespectful language towards Belgium. A relatively small population, which has since Mar 2022 sent over 200 Anti armour weapons, and 5000 assault rifles. Heavy mortars, body armour, night vision systems, trucks, ammunition and, dare i say it in here, helmets.

    Among other equipment. And financial and diplomatic support. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

    Shameful to describe that as finally waking up.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I did feel that interviewee had an angle and axe to grind too though and went off on one about Australia getting involved among other stuff. But going by other reports/interviews from that Willy chap, it's clear it's a real grind with a lot of dead piling up on all sides. That and the highly variable training, experience, quality and equipment levels of Russian and Ukrainian troops. Willy's other vids and interviews are definitely worth a deep dive. He's been engaged with this invasion from the start and goes off piste for more insight. He's very much pro Ukraine, but doesn't pull punches where he sees them screwing up.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Which is why aviation experts have being suggesting the rafale is more suited to Ukraine's needs.

    Yes training take time, but if there's Ukrainian pilots without an aircraft are you gonna do the Russian thing and send them to the Frontline as cannon fodder or maybe start them training on airframes that they will eventually be flying. The days of Ukraine sourcing Russian arms is over.

    And again you're back to this or that.

    It's not like western countries have a list with a few columns and Ukraine can have one from this column or 10 from this column.

    Oh you picked a fighter jets, no AA for you etc... They recently announced tanks for Ukraine.... Let's hope ATACMS were not in the other column.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Jaysis they're out in force today eh? Is there an event that I missed or something? Is this still about the new tanks? Has Russia surrendered or Putin been assassinated without our knowing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 Itsame Mario


    Russia has ramped up production of weapons systems and in Feb will have the remaining 150,000 of their "mobilised" having finished their training and available for deployment. There may not be an appetite for handing over land to Russia and I don't blame them, and if they succeed in driving Russia out then obviously there is no need to. I suppose it comes down to at what cost is that victory considered worthwhile. If Ukraine succeeds but loses a million men to do it is that OK? 2 million? 5 million? The destruction of how many cities, towns and villages? That is an uncomfortable question that they I'd imagine the Ukrainian government must have already assessed. Of course the same is true of Russia, at what cost is "victory" in Ukraine no longer a victory, how many do Russia have to lose before it consider the war a failure regardless of what land they may or may not manage to hold on to. Is the death of 5 million Russian men a price worth paying for the successful annexation on Donbass? 8 million? Who knows what number they are willing to accept.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Maybe you missed who invaded Ukraine?

    Is it the russian millitary complex and profiterring you are refering too?

    And the Russian orthodox church happens to support the invasion and genocide in Ukraine and are a close friend of Putin

    Is that the russian values you mean?

    So where does that relate to values in Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,812 ✭✭✭✭josip


    If nothing else, kudos for exploring a new angle on the Ukrainian invasion and Ireland's involvement that we haven't seen here before. I don't think religion of any flavour comes into it with Putin and his ilk. Although he's quite happy to manipulate those naiive enough, if it helps him to achieve his objectives.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ukrainians are fully aware of what this is costing them and they oppose any settlement with Russia by overwhelming numbers.

    The options available to the West is to give them the means to fight effectively or not. The decision to fight has already been made by them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I think we're going to see a lot more of this as the War progresses. The go-to tactic will be "The War must end now! Stop the killing", but the meaning is essentially "We've probably reached the limit of our likely gains, and now want to hold onto what we've got with a frozen frontline."

    They're still getting bits of Donbas in the last few weeks, and probably will get bits more over time. But it does look like Ukraine is arming for a major assault, and if Solidar and their glacial creep towards Bakmut is the best they can pull off with their current human-wave tactics, then I think the Kremlin now know that they might need to move now to get some sort of "peace" before those losses are likely reversed.

    So now we get Russian-backed Boardsies screaming for peace. When our current guest departs, several more will probably appear with a very similar message. Hell, they've even got Trump doing it too "truthing" about how easy it is to end the war. I expect this talking point to increase with urgency over time.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Also Russia's capacity to "ramp up production of weapons systems" is limited and pales in comparison to what is being delivered to Ukraine. Their weapons program can be pretty well exemplified by the jokeshop that is the T14.

    The training their "mobilised" troops are receiving is shambolic.

    Force of numbers will obviously have an impact. But Russia is sacrificing thousands of men to advance pathetically small distances.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    See them everyday on social media unfortunately

    The peace loving trolls,trying to end the conflict Russia started,so they can hang on to the last pieces of land they have occupied

    It really shines trough



  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Yes, and I just got warned for saying something about one of those. But really does anybody here wish to engage with those who do not support Ukraine, or expect to have an honest debate with a barbarian?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    And again you're back to this or that.

    No, I'm back to what's actually strategically and tactically useful now, today, rather than an expensive military PR exercise.

    For example I would see the Polish announcement of very much upgraded ex Russian tanks to be a better actual bunch of tanks than the dozen UK Challengers(though fair play to them for giving them as it's opened the gates to more western MBTs). They're better than what the Russians have by some margin, they won't need a tenth of the training to operate and use them, they use the same ammo they already use and most of the spares and mechanics training they already have. The Challengers don't. They need totally different ammo, training and maintenance requirements. Same for the Abrams and Leopards. So that's three different systems Ukrainian logistics, training, support and maintenence have to dal with. The Polish kit will also be harder to spot among their other tanks. Russian positions expecting their own old stuff coming towards them could get a very rude awakening. Challengers, Leopards and Abrams will certainly have a PR and morale boosting role that's for sure and if they can get enough of them in big enough numbers as a combined force hitting Russian positions they will make a difference.

    Personally I reckon the Bradleys will have more overall battlefield utility than either. Ukrainians won't have to rely on walking or using soft skinned vehicles to get from A to B for a start, never mind the anti tank and enemy position weaponry involved and by their very nature will have infantry with them most of the time, so will be a more combined force than what we've generally seen on either side for much of the time.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Where to start with this? Firstly it is not religious. To think so is nonsense. It is a land grab by Russia. Secondly it is nothing to do with military spending. It is a land grab by Russia. Thirdly, you have so much whataboutism in your post.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm quite amused by the "Orthodoxy is practically identical to Catholicism from a theological perspective" statement myself. As if such similar theological distinctions haven't caused centuries of civil wars and strife.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    I'm going to read into your figures --

    You seem to be contrasting Russia's possible WILLINGNESS to lose 8 million men (even I know that weapons don't discriminate on a gender basis) to keep the Donbass region with Ukraine's possible NECESSITY to lose at least 1 million men (ditto) to liberate all territories.

    One might think you are suggesting that it would be prudent for Ukraine to yield now to such a mighty foe.

    The prospect of having to deal with Western equipment will do wonders for how "reasonable" Russia and it's supporters are.

    I could write the script myself -- "Oh we never meant for all this "unpleasantness" to happen, we were just being neighbourly on account of being so frightened at being provoked by not being allowed to take NATO countries"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,006 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The F-16 wish is about the platform and the variety of US weapons it can carry and lob from 10,000m, not doing low altitude ground attack in range of manpads. Aerial warfare is all about energy, from how long the batteries in your DJI drone last to how far a glide bomb can travel depending on release height. Most of the battlefield danger from manpads is for low flying aircraft below 5,000m. For long range radars and SAMs, the F-16 can cary HARMs.

    As a general rule of thumb, it seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian military are very smart, and are not asking for stuff as armchair warriors, that they can't use or don't need.

    A significant current issue, recognised by all allied parties, is that Ukraine needs a capabiity to precision strike out to about 200km. The Orcs are now placing stuff like big ammo dumps 180km from the line of conflict. Ukraine needs to be able to hit these. The F-16 can carry a whole host of US weapons, and I think that's the big advantage - flexibility. Altitude is potential energy, so the higher you can release or fire a wepon at the ground, the further it's range

    Maybe all this talk is a stalking horse for Ukraine getting Gray Eagles. 'Oh that's a relief, they only got Gay Eagles instead of F-16s'



This discussion has been closed.
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