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Dairy Calves 2024

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,225 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    For that cow, yes.


    She might take to another calf and be kept. She wouldn't necessarily have to be a passenger if her own calf dies. I'm sure it happens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,225 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,833 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Had a farmer buying fr bull calves here today, we agreed 60 euro last week. Youngest calf 10 days to 18 days. He said a farmer rang him this morning offering him Friesian bull calves for 10 euro.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The figure I gave was for calves weaned/ cow. 0.87 is the calves registered/ cow. Because of schemes farmers were registering any calvrs born to draw payments.

    I expect mortality would drop that figure to the figure I said was given by Teagasc at discussion groups.

    Just as an add on it seems in last week rag that Matt Dempsey commented that last year they lost no animal on the farm. This was due to the change to dairy cross stock. Previously with suckler bred cattle there average mortality was 4-5/years. I think they used feed a lot of bulls.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭minerleague


    I know you argue against sucklers and maybe you're right but plenty at your game making little or nothing too ( which you are probably grateful for)

    For myself killing my own stock sucklers pay fairly well at beef prices like we have now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    There is still a cost of getting a derogation. Many farmers avoided it by exporting slurry that were borderline. Previously if you were in derogation you could not be in GLAS, I am not sure about ACRES. Getting a planner to do a derogation for you costs 2-300 euro.

    It all depends on when you buy the bullock and what happens after that. I saw yearling Friesians today 175 kgs sold for 250 euro, I saw He/ AA heifers 157 kgs sold for 240. There is a lot of 8-10 sucklers around that are sub 300 kgs.

    It's a devils jobs to put a calf under a cow. An older dairy cross ya, on suckler bred cows it seldom works.

    Is that just the whole point. It's an average. It just shows the craziness of the majority of sucklers. The statistics do not lie.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I can’t see the logic of keeping them a third winter. By then they have eaten another autumns grass and have eaten a nice bit of silage over that third winter.

    Whatever about the craziness of the average suckler what about the craziness of keeping freisians pushing 36 months.

    Dont forget the majority of sucklers are on poor ground.

    I have no issue buying a few dairy cross stock on the side when the price is right but I would be targeting a finish around 24 months over 300 kg dw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Not every one will end up doing three winters. Friesians are very unforgiving an an underfleshed one will neither weigh or grade.

    The ones I killed this week would have probably killed as P's in September/October and being only 320 DW. 600 kg+ Friesians do not thrive outside after late September. They just did not get enough grass last summer. In 2021 every animal I had was gone by mid October.

    Grass costs about 100/ unit / year. Winter feed costs for a store was sub 80-90c per day this year it about 1.25.

    Friesians never come I to a mart as singles. It's about the optimal profit per animal.

    Selling a 320kg DW P grade for 12-1300 euro or feed it until after Christmas ( in a way because the way processors behave it's a gamble andit immaterial where it's a Friesians or a young bull) or store and kill following June when it's maybe 420+ DW at what is usually the highest price of the year.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Last year was tough on the grass side. Hopefully this year is better. The current mart prices for yearlings even seem to assume we are in for a good price from now on.

    It’s a tough year for lads buying yearlings. Ideally, there would be more information available for buyers of bullocks including carcass values based on genomic assessments etc.

    I believe you are a good operator in terms of keeping your costs down and that is essential in my opinion in any livestock enterprise where we see such fluctuations in price.

    Irish beef and dairy is in a good position to take advantage of output from grass. We can see a reduction in output on the continent due to higher input costs in systems there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    Similar to base here, the last of the fresian bullocks, 4 of them went just before Xmas, it's always the tail end of the them that take time. The last batch of cattle were killed in mid August.The margin wasn't there to to cash them in September. Personally I had the decision made in august that these were going to see the shed again for a short period, 30 months just doesn't matter with them, It was just their genetics and there was no point in selling them when the market was falling.

    I'm calf to beef and suckler to beef, so well have a good handle what's in front of you. About half are finished out of the shed and the other half go back to grass, heavy ground forces my hand a bit in finishing more on grass in the summer. Have more heavy stock puts pressure on the system, more fertiliser, ground damage etc. Having a few less of these, let's better quality silage be taken out at ease. Having calves and yearlings, they are just lighter on the ground. I'm even thinking of letting out the yearling heifers to start grazing this weekend, the forecast is on the side. If they have to come back in, so be it

    What is coming fit at the moment for the next 2 months is Dairy cross and Sucklers heifers, the poorer few are going back to grass and will be hung before the end of June. Heifers just come fat quick with a small amount of meal. Letting grass do the heavy lifting for the slower finishing stock is key. I kinda grade out stores at housing into 3 groups, top of the table ( spring finish), mid table( early summer) and the relegation battle ( forget about the 30 months and aim for early autumn / maybe Xmas)

    Getting back to margin, on Sucklers it's a simple thing, bullocks have to be hitting and average of 350kg DW at 24months, this is down to management mainly grazing and genetics. The cow is costing to much to keep to be not producing.

    The beef game is simple ( put as much weight on as quick and cheap as you can.) The only way to measure that is with a scales and the auld calculator. It's the bit in the middle that matters when the cheque comes in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    Back on topic, where do folks see calf price landing this year, compared to the past few years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Unless the boat put a base under Friesians they will continue to be cheap. Biggest issue may be farmers starting to dump them.in at 14 days old. However if the market is poor this will create its own issues. Killmallock a farmers mart as much as you could get one Fr calves 17-20 days old 20 euro. 21-24 days 30 euro.

    Saw in Kenmare mart today a HE calf 21 days old only make 65 euro. He look an ok calf nothing spectacular. Now he was the only calf there. In Killmallock 3-4 weeks 250-350.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    With all this fine weather on the horizon for the next 10 days, the winds will have to return, this will put pressure on seas and sailings. Numbers and weather have the greatest impact.

    They were strong prices in kilmallock



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Agree, the reality is calf rearers have there pick of calves. A few were paying a substantial premium to buy directly off farm. Many are sitting on there hands at present.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭weatherbyfoxer


    Alot of the profit difference in a calf to beef system is dictated by buying calves direct or buying in a mart ring, if your buying 20+ beef calves a year and willing to take a mix bulls and heifers you will get the best value,then if you prove to be a good reliable customer the dairy farmer will listen to you if you go to him requesting particular ai beef bull once they are using Ai beef straws



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    That is the way to work things for all parties.the seller knows he has can market in an orderly way and the buyer is getting a lower risk calf desease wise.we have a number of buyers but the early one got locked up in january and it fecked the whole season for us



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 9,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Some good tips here on pulling a backwards calf. Some of which I had to work out myself as I've never seen them written down before.


    https://www.grainews.ca/cattlemans-corner/important-tips-on-birthing-backward-calves/

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    This man reckons if you're prepared to breed a calf without any beef merit, you should be prepared to rear him...

    What do you think?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,765 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    He's not telling any lies, their a tiny % of herds with a booby calf new zealand view on their male calves that have been getting away with blue murder, theirs a very interesting side story to the limerick calf death incident and all I'll say is theirs a couple of dairy herds down in that locality now that are under severe scrutiny from the department of agriculture



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,261 ✭✭✭Grueller


    I wouldn't be that exporters biggest fan, but he is not far off the mark on that one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,962 ✭✭✭straight


    I thought we were all being told that was down to mental health. 🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,765 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    The actual story if what was true I was told by a source that wouldn't be a bulls***ter is alot worse, and wouldn't be a great news story to see in the mainstream press and give the anti farming crowd some serious ammunition



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,962 ✭✭✭straight


    Hardly surprising. The usual suspects again. Sins of the few are punishing us all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭green daries


    Ya it's not a good story apparently. Few smarter than everyone else outfits and the place they were trading through are getting fair combing through at the moment. Regular visits as well as a historical investigation for previous years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,962 ✭✭✭straight


    Ya, I can see right through his self interested BS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,351 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    I reckon that story never made it into the media 😏



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    He might be seven different types of a ba!!ox, however he would be will aware how a calf slaughter policy would effect the image of Irish beef. We have gone from a discounted to a premium product in a lot of Europe.

    As well he probably see that lighter Friesians calves (14-20 day old) have to be fed on for another 10+ days before they are suitable for export. He probably also cannot export a lit of FRx's because of the JE influence

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,016 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    so you want to add more cost to the calf by having to tb test every calf that is sold in the country



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It coming in anyway. The EU legislation underpinning the proposals last year will come in this year. The proposal was calves had to be weaned to travel over 50 km. That is effectively 6 weeks minimum and probably nearer 8 weeks

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Tbh moving the tb test out to 120 days as they did during covid would prob help as much as anything else. Twud make fuckall difference in its transmission as nothing they do has when they ignore the wildlife aspect.

    as for the fella above any attention he draws is purely for his own benefit so talking things down would be an obvious route.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    What's a dairy farmer doing that another farmer can't with rearing calves. Most calves are just put on auto feeders anyway Even if it goes to 6 weeks there'll be lads looking for 12 weeks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Can't figure out the welfare element, what's the difference moving a calf at 2 weeks compared to 6.



  • Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    What are they being tested for at the minute ? There should be no requirement to test any animal under six months . If we had a farm organisation with backbone that is the way it would be



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Morris Moss


    I suppose I'll put up a few prices I got for calves, this is out of the yard,Hereford bulls 250, heifers 220 and Friesian bulls 70.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,089 ✭✭✭alps


    They move out of a stressed, overworked, crowded environment to a more relaxed greater attention one. Far better to GTF out of the dairy farm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,962 ✭✭✭straight


    What ages were they and how much did they drink?



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Morris Moss


    Oldest was 4 weeks, youngest 11 days, haven't a clue, at least 6 litres a day I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,225 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    He has his connections and routes set up. What he wants is for the farmer to be prevented from selling them to him for longer. So that he farmer has to pay to feed them longer. Then he can pick them up for next to nothing (very little competition) and make more money shipping them off.


    Nobody is forcing him to buy calves at a younger age for shipping. Let him step aside if he wants and it will make space for someone else to fill that void. Seamus can then bid for the 8-week old calves if he wants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭mf240


    Your man seems very unpopular with ye.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,833 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    I'd have no time for him either. He's on my list of bollox's



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭cosatron




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    This 6 week think is a joke, 2 weeks is fine IMHO. Calves are less conscience of being moved at 2 weeks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,833 ✭✭✭✭whelan2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    3 weeks is a sweet spot as a calf rearer here. It has them over the hump of rota and crypto, being able to keep a bit warmth themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The problem with two weeks is it is abused. Register a calf a few days early and you have calves hitting the marts at 10 days old and this will transfer to 21 days. As well issues such as too little colostrum will not show at 14 days.

    The advantage of 28+ days or even six weeks is poorer genetic calves regardless of breed will be very easy to see in the ring

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    How the fcuk do lads register calves before they're born? Talking rubbish there now in fairness



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,765 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Few big herds down Limerick direction that are in the absolute s**t over been suspected of it, probably a bit cuter with back-dating date of births and bvd samples sent asap, only came to light after that farm which made national news headlines last Spring



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,968 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    You have 27 days to register a calf. All you do is register the calf straight away at birth but backdate the birth date by any time within that period. However anything over 3-5 days is very noticeable.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    If buy a calf they need to be 3 weeks to a month old, that way you can get a good idea of what way they should turn out. Plus they would be nibbling at nuts and hay which helps them settle. Younger calves tend to pick up more bugs especially if they are moved through a mart.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,913 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Funny how the Dairy lads are mad to register calves early and it's the opposite for the Suckler boys. The later the better.


    If they weighed the calves in the mart, that would help pinpoint younger calves.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



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