Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

hairymaryberry · 14-11-2022 12:38pm

I'm no expert on electricity but the word is before DB can get electric buses in large number the electricity supply to the depots will have to be upgraded, new substations or something like that? So i guess if we see the roads outside depots being dug up electric buses are on the way.

p_haugh · 14-11-2022 12:53pm

As far as I'm aware, currently both Ringsend and Summerhill have planning permission granted for the addition of EV Substaions (and relavent infastructure associated with that)

ELM327 · 14-11-2022 2:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119821138#Comment_119821138

It takes 3kWh of electricity to "generate" 1kWh of hydrogen. If you're using fossil fuels like currently they are using, then the hydrogen is no better than any other fossil fuel.

Give me the 3kWh of electricity in a battery, much better efficiency that way. Hydrogen cars get 50-60mpge, EVs are over 100 usually. Hydrogen is not green, it is not zero emissions (other than at point of use - it's essentially just a really long tailpipe), and it's not efficient.

ELM327 · 14-11-2022 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119822648#Comment_119822648

Batteries don't have enough performance? LOL.

Batteries in current cars deliver over 1000hp and close on that in torque. No problem powering buses or trucks either. Plenty of EV trucks and buses in Norway.

Hydrogen is only on the table because it suits the oil companies - distribution network - and governments - easier to tax as you can't generate it at home

bk · 15-11-2022 11:25am

"It takes 3kWh of electricity to "generate" 1kWh of hydrogen. If you're using fossil fuels like currently they are using, then the hydrogen is no better than any other fossil fuel."

Sigh, Hydrogen has zero tailpipe emissions, no PM's or NOX emitted, so therefore is better for the environment and peoples health then Diesel.

In terms of greenhouse emissions, we should preferably be using green hydrogen, which means hydrogen produced by renewables, which makes it better then fossil fuels.

"Batteries in current cars deliver over 1000hp and close on that in torque. No problem powering buses or trucks either. Plenty of EV trucks and buses in Norway."

Double sigh. Performance in terms of range and recharging speed, not torque obviously. I know perfectly well that EV's have amazing torque, acceleration, etc.

The issue is range, can you stuff enough batteries in an intercity coach (while still having enough room for bags and staying under weight limits) to do Cork to Dublin non stop at motorway speeds and even if it makes it, can you recharge at either end fast enough for the relatively quick turn around time to do the same on the return journey?

Of course, I know that batteries are 3 to 4 times more efficient then hydrogen in terms of electricity usage. So wherever possible it is better to use batteries rather then Hydrogen. However the current battery technologies have a number of limitations which means they aren't suitable for every application. If the batteries don't have enough range or are too heavy or are too expensive or the recharge time too slow, then Hydrogen is the next best option.

And of course battereis will hopefully continue to get better over time. A few years ago battereis weren't good enough to power double decker city buses, but now they are. Maybe in a few years we will get to the stage where they are good enough to cover BE style commuter services and maybe a few years after that non stop intercity services. But in the meantime the commuter and intercity services have to use hydrogen for now.

And even when those applications switch to batteries, we we still need hydrogen to power aircraft and ships and to help balance the grid when the wind isn't blowing and to produce ammonia for fertiliser, etc. Hydrogen will be part of our future energy mix.

dublinman1990 · 27-11-2022 1:39am

I have just spotted this video on Youtube.

It will go live at 8pm tonight.

https://youtu.be/GaaIgBDdoxE

I'm glad that the PA's are getting more work on more routes within Dublin Bus. Donnybrook even had a few of them out on the 84X to Kilcoole in recent times which is great to see.

Also one of the PA's was seen on the beginning of the Toy Show last night with Ryan Tubridy being the driver.

Did anyone here see it?

p_haugh · 27-11-2022 1:30pm

There's been a few photos of PAs on the 145 out to Ballywaltrim as well. Seems some drivers that have gotten the PA training like to take them out in the evening!

Trouwe Ier · 29-11-2022 3:15pm

Is there any update on the works at Athlone or progress on the EWs at Ballymena?

whyulittle · 30-11-2022 7:04pm

Spotted on Twitter today, looks to be in Athlone.

https://twitter.com/niall2c/status/1597720415333273601

blanch152 · 30-11-2022 8:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119821713#Comment_119821713

Battery technology isn't at the point where that is possible.

donkey balls · 03-12-2022 9:52pm

An Irish transport company has put in an order for some Volvo electric trucks, The range is about 300km.

So they be only used on local runs around Leinster, As for Hydrogen buses Aberdeen has being running them the last 7/8 years.

whyulittle · 29-12-2022 4:38pm

Little bit on the electric buses for Athlone.

https://twitter.com/Dept_Transport/status/1608427267088154626

Trouwe Ier · 30-12-2022 3:17pm

That was an interesting clip alright, but some of the Twitter responses were disheartening.

One correction, I would make is that there is no new depot, though the Minister looked especially bleary-eyed on camera.

I noted on another forum that VWL172 was out in service yesterday. As a "08" VWL, its days must surely be very lowly numbered now.

There does not seem to be much happening at Roxboro, in advance of the arrival of the 20 Electroliners.

LXFlyer · 30-12-2022 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120046718#Comment_120046718

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the twitter replies - there’s a large number of people who just don’t get that the country has legal obligations to cut emissions.

VWL172 is the spare bus in Athlone should any of the WMs be out of service.

It will likely retire when the new buses are launched.

dublinman1990 · 31-12-2022 2:42am

That was a good video about the electric single deckers in Athlone. I wasn't surprised to hear in the video that they don't emit sound from within the battery pack. It is completely silent like the EW's.

That is going to provide a really different experience in how you would wait for it at the bus stop. It would give an indicator that there more people willing to track their buses on their phone or constantly keep an eye out for it while at the bus stop from now on.

There was a single decker on trial with Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann that had also run silently while it emitted water from the tailpipe.

It is a good sign to see this technology launched within the irish bus market from 2023. It is hopefully going to be quite a sight to see the ADL single deckers on the O route in Dublin City Centre by then.

dublinman1990 · 05-01-2023 5:06am

The main owner or owners of the Buses, Trains & Aviation page on Facebook has said that the EA's based in Athlone are being put out for revenue earning service from the 12th of January. There are two more photos of the EA's going out for driver training in Athlone which were taken about 5 days ago.

dublinman1990 · 05-01-2023 7:35pm

An unidentified PA just went past my house around Newtownpark Avenue on the 7d to Dalkey this evening. The 7b to Shankill also passes outside the house as well. However I have never seen a PA on it yet.

Trouwe Ier · 09-01-2023 8:38pm

I have passed Roxboro Depot a few times on trains over the past ten days but only once when it was bright and the yard was relatively empty (last Wednesday 4/1/23 c. 9:05).

I could see no evidence whatsoever of charging infrastructure having been installed.

It is possible and perhaps likely, that a lot of sub-surface work was done when they modernised the office buildings in 2021/22 e.g. ducting. However, I saw no plinths, wheel stoppers, bases etc.

Bearing in mind that it took at least 3 months to undertake the "civils" at the much smaller Athlone depot, I doubt we'll see any EWs gliding in and out of Roxboro before Easter.

And of course, nothing will charge up, without a substation being commissioned (planning permission has been granted for one between the shed and the soon-to-be-relaid Foynes line).

Slightly off topic, but apart from VWL162 which had operated in passenger service earlier that morning, I saw no other VWL there either. VWLs 315/316/317 are the only ones I have seen on the streets in recent weeks and off-peak, there is still a VWL PVR of 3 so, assuming that those three were out, I wonder if VWLs 313/318/325 have migrated.

whyulittle · 09-01-2023 11:19pm

A few more pics from Athlone.

https://twitter.com/niall2c/status/1612146499995017220

whyulittle · 11-01-2023 6:58pm

I'll stop at this stage, maybe just follow this guy!

https://twitter.com/niall2c/status/1613214089144303616

Trouwe Ier · 11-01-2023 7:33pm

I'm still not sure whether they are entering passenger service tomorrow (Thursday, 12/1/23).

LXFlyer · 11-01-2023 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095534#Comment_120095534

I’d expect a lot of PR before they do, so I doubt it is tomorrow.

whyulittle · 11-01-2023 7:56pm

Launching Friday 20th.

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2023/01/11/irelands-first-electric-bus-fleet-will-be-on-athlone-streets-later-this-month/

whyulittle · 12-01-2023 8:04pm

https://twitter.com/Buseireann/status/1613582080075599872

zell12 · 17-01-2023 10:39am

Bus born

https://twitter.com/myDublinbus/status/1615224106097467395?s=20&t=rE8W7CGKV5rZQwlYRp8USwhttps://twitter.com/myDublinbus/status/1615224106097467395?s=20&t=rE8W7CGKV5rZQwlYRp8USw

halfpastneverr · 17-01-2023 9:09pm

I saw one of the new looking Dublin Buses driving up the North Quays aroun 9:15am this morning with the destination scroll displaying '19.12.22' for some reason. Anbody know why?!

d51984 · 17-01-2023 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121861#Comment_120121861

Could be the update version of the destination displays.

p_haugh · 17-01-2023 10:27pm

The EW came down for inspection related to the Next Generation Ticketing, along with other NTA liveried buses.

https://twitter.com/myDublinbus/status/1615457403104796674?t=LCAIINrKbN6zR6QhyPkBOA&s=19

17-01-2023 11:13pm

Is there any detail on what "next gen ticketing" entails?

d51984 · 18-01-2023 1:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122557#Comment_120122557

What we should of having years ago, contactless payment via phone, card watch, apple, google, plus more.

dublinman1990 · 18-01-2023 6:55am

What brand are the new ticket machines. Are they Wayfarers or something different?

p_haugh · 18-01-2023 8:43am

Interestingly enough, that EA in the photos is for Dublin Bus, not Bus Eireann. Wonder why DB got the mirror cameras on the EAs, but not the EWs?

bk · 18-01-2023 12:32pm

Nice, I'd assume to allow the companies competing for the tenders to see how and where their ticket machines and validators need to fit.

Trouwe Ier · 19-01-2023 12:05pm

At this late stage, is there any further update on whether the EAs are making their debut in Athlone tomorrow (Friday, 20/1/23)?

d51984 · 20-01-2023 12:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128417#Comment_120128417

Doubtful, word on the street is the PA class in Dublin are not been charged at all, and have not been charged since they entered service...

d51984 · 20-01-2023 12:59am

The three hydrogen examples in Bus Eireann Broadstone are going, dead milage to be topped up. You could not make it up.

mikeybhoy · 20-01-2023 1:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132408#Comment_120132408

They should really get more PAs to fill the gap until the infrastructure for the electrics is ready. 06 AXs are far too old to be in passenger service (I know that will piss some of the bus spotters off)

Trouwe Ier · 20-01-2023 9:11am

BÉ have just tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/Buseireann/status/1616344892329844742?t=PUenBfXFwaRbpNQtijE5eg&s=08

I have never seen a PA or PAD plugged in. I know that in Limerick and Galway, they are parked in close formation like every other bus. AFAIK there are no charging points installed yet outside of Athlone.

whyulittle · 20-01-2023 1:31pm

Couple of stories in the news today from the launch. I'm on one of the routes and it's the old blue and yellow bus I've seen passing so far today.

https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2023/01/20/first-for-athlone-as-irelands-first-all-electric-town-bus-service-launched/

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2023/0120/1349810-athlone-bus/

https://twitter.com/Buseireann/status/1616405350235643906

LXFlyer · 20-01-2023 1:38pm

As per the RTE article - they’ll commence in service on the 29th of January.

Today was the publicity launch.

Trouwe Ier · 20-01-2023 3:01pm

It's an "Irish Launch" so. I imagine when most of us think of the verb "to launch", we have visions of ships trundling down slipways while hats are thrown in the air, reports being handed out to journalists etc........... In this case, the bus returns to its parking spot!

I noted that 18 chargers have been installed so I presume that this is future proofing.

bk · 20-01-2023 9:28pm

"It's an "Irish Launch" so. I imagine when most of us think of the verb "to launch", we have visions of ships trundling down slipways while hats are thrown in the air, reports being handed out to journalists etc........... In this case, the bus returns to its parking spot!"

In fairness when a ship launches like that, they are purely ceremonial, it normally doesn't enter active "service" either. Depending on the size and type of ship, it can still go through, weeks, months or even years (for the likes of Aircraft Carriers) of outfitting and sea trials before actually entering service.

"Doubtful, word on the street is the PA class in Dublin are not been charged at all, and have not been charged since they entered service..."

Disappointing to hear, but even without being plugged in, they still operate as hybrid buses, so still should be more fuel efficient then straight Diesel. Also they don't need to be plugged in to operate as zero emission vehicles in zero emissions zones in future if required.

dublinman1990 · 20-01-2023 9:39pm

This was one of the images on Wrightbus Facebook page from November of last year.

It's showing the rear of the EW on the factory floor in Ballymena.

belfast stephen · 20-01-2023 9:41pm

lets hope the Build Quality is better on these than the First bus Glasgow version where they Leaked like a Sieve in the Wet

dublinman1990 · 25-01-2023 3:31am

Eamon Ryan has mentioned in his IT article about the GDA Transport Strategy that the rollout of the new electric buses for BÉ will take place in Limerick and Galway very soon.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/01/24/there-is-no-reason-dublin-cannot-be-like-copenhagen-or-amsterdam-for-cycling/

The only thing holding it back so far is with the installing of the new electric charging points for the bus depots in those two counties.

Does anyone have any info about when that work to install the chargers will take place?

It does appear going from Éamon Ryan's word on the matter that this work will relatively quickly as soon as the buses are rolled out for service in Athlone from Sunday.

mikeybhoy · 25-01-2023 12:29pm

What's happened to the Streetlites the new electric buses have displaced

LXFlyer · 25-01-2023 1:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155113#Comment_120155113

They’re still in service in Athlone until the weekend and probably will remain as a backup for a short period.

They will then move to Carlow for the new town service there in the coming months.

mikeybhoy · 25-01-2023 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120155437#Comment_120155437

I heard talk of a Carlow service alright but wasn't sure if it was actually going ahead or not. Is this service going to be BE operated or will it be tendered out like the Kilkenny service is?

LXFlyer · 25-01-2023 5:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120156546#Comment_120156546

It was tendered and BE have won the tender.

whyulittle · 25-01-2023 7:32pm

Don't know if it was actually in service or training, but spotted one of the new buses pass the house today.

Electric, Hydrogen & Hybrid Electric Buses in Ireland

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