Russia - threadbanned users in OP

The idiocy of maligning a whole nation. From the safety of your basement and anonymity.

Does it even cross the line for site moderation? I dunno. Hopefully. It should.

Russian propaganda is pretty much maxed out as it is. The Z fanatics and their narrative pretty much hold sway there and everyone else is too afraid to say anything. German tanks are not going to make an iota of difference to the levels of hatred and aggression within Russia. They are doing their worst as it is. They are not going to go nuclear over the deployment of German tanks. The only logic that will work with Russia now is battlefield defeats.

Sorry, wrong thread 🤭

He has the numpties fooled. But not so much the thinking population. Theyre the obstacle, optics is his (putins) tool.

Higher society doesnt buy his bullsht. Although optics can help change that.

Conspiratorial nonsense.

If theyre so happy to sacrifice Ukraine, then why have they sent every reasonable and available means of defense to Ukraine. Huge quantities of military, humanitarian and financial aid. Along with diplomatic support at all levels. And self sacrificing economic sanctions.

Why didnt the shady political illuminati elite stop all of that? Tinfoil bollox.

'Happy to sacrifice' simply doesnt work in the context of 'multiple billions in aid'.

How much have they actually sent, as opposed to promised and then found reasons to delay?

None of that disproves that they were happy with the status quo, or a status quo that sees Russia dominant over Ukraine, or a Ukraine defeated in 3 days. It was the US and UK who were bolstering Ukraine before the invasion and without that help Kyiv may well have fallen in 3 days. Where was Germany? Germany was bolstering Russia.

The overwhelming German public wants to support Ukraine, so they have to pay heed to that.

The aid that they have sent is more to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe, which they would in part be culpable for because of how much Russian strength they have funded through their energy prices. It is to hold the line. They are holding back, to send a message to Ukraine their support is limited and qualified, in the hope that Ukraine will settle for some of the Russian demands - either territory or Ukraine out of NATO.

And they can go back to trading with Russia as if nothing happened.

And I treat your asides about tinfoil and conspiracies with the disdain and contempt they deserve.

But they haven't sent every reasonable and available means of defense to Ukraine.

Not even remotely close

Most of what Germany has sent Ukraine is defensive in nature. Scholz may think Leopards, in this context, are offensive weapons. I think he's worried Ukraine won't stop at the border and will try rolling on Moscow.

Ukraine want's done with this war ASAP, I don't think extending it for the sake of vengeance is remotely likely, they care about their fallen way to much.

Yes of course there'll be a new EU alliance and everyone will agree Germany shouldn't be part of it.

What fantasy planet do you live on?

But I'm talking about the HUGE amount of defensive weapons claimed they sent ,by no means have they sent a Huge amount of defensive weapons, someone is mixing pledged aid and defense systems in the same word ,

America has sent tens of billions in weapons and vehicles this is a fact ,

Germany spent 2 billon not in weapons but in other aid too ,but they have begrudgingly sent some weapons systems while making excuses and publicly blocking other systems such as Maraders ifv, patriot systems,and others now including MBTs .

What's the point in being the largest if you can't be relied upon ? Much better to have lots of smaller countries rather than a big one with too much influence.

There was talk of an EU defense force. How much use would Germany be ?

No goalposts have moved.

You were asked how much of the promised aid has actually been delivered? You were unable to answer that question.

Of course they were happy to sacrifice Ukraine. Where was this support when the US and UK were helping Ukraine pre invasion to bolster their defences? You were unable to answer that question. To call it whataboutery, when it is directly related to the topic under discussion is really a desperate attempt at deflection.

Meanwhile they were bolstering Russia. The gas must flow.

Germany's government is happy to sacrifice Ukraine's interests to get the gas back flowing, as far they think they can get away with it in terms of German public opinion. There's no way they could spin not providing humanitarian \ financial aid and limited defensive weapons. They are desperately trying to find excuses not to send tanks - everything from the tanks not being ready, to BS about not receiving formal requests and now playing the WW2 victim card.

It's clear the German government would be perfectly happy with a peace deal right now leaving Russia in possession of annexed territory, and likely further, a neutered Ukraine. The gas must flow.

Let's not forget the discussion moved onto Germany's motives because your claims about the tanks being a risk of causing WW3 were thoroughly debunked. And not just by me.

So your little digs about "fruity personal theories" don't hold any water.

Looks like possibly a wound to me, though I don't think a tourniquet is called for. Wear an Orc uniform in an area the Orcs haven't actually won, expect an Orc prize.

Nope, I think things have changed a lot regarding Russia-Germany relations since Putin's invasion Feb last year. I don't believe Germany particularly wants "Putin's gas" any more, or is "happy to sacrifice Ukraine's interests" etc. to get it again. You've jumped from them not supplying tanks (yet) to that.

On the "peace deal" aspect I don't think they (like pretty much any country in Europe) would be happy at this point, given level of resistance Ukraine put up, success it has had, and extent of support received, with Russia successfully conquering a large amount of land, killing so many people, committing war crimes + then getting it all blessed in retrospect by a shaky agreement with a liar like Putin.

I think it is just pure fear now on part of Germany (as regards the tanks). I believe similar fear/reluctance is there for other countries incl. US (around the supply of likes of tanks, long range weapons, aircraft) as others have mentioned. In fairness to UK, they seem to have pushed the envelope out on classes of weapons that can be supplied to Ukraine.