Joe Biden Presidency thread Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21

brickster69 · 15-01-2023 10:32PM

Jan 15, 2023

I agree that there are questions of security that need to be asked and, of course, the fact that these highly sensitive documents are withdrawn and not replaced should, indeed, ring alarm bells.
However, contrary to your dismissal of people's criticism of Trump's conduct in the matter, I think that his behaviour is the stark contrast between the two cases. He buggered around for the better part of a year before the FBI had to go and forcibly take back the documents he REFUSED to hand over.
If I remember rightly Trump lied flat out about having these documents in the first place and then pivoted to "well, there not important", until finally the authorities had enough of his bollocks and had to his gaff and get the bloody things.
The difference in the behaviour of the two people couldn't be more pronounced and, yes, it has bearing on how people are going to view each case.
The long and the short of it is, if Trump had handed back the documents he had in his possession when he was first asked, few people (if any) would have batted an eyelid.

What has Trump in anyway got to do with this matter. He is under investigation and no doubt things will get sorted in time and if he has done wrong then he should get what he deserves.

This matter is about a VP who presumably took top secret documents with or without the right to do so, had no idea what was in them and no idea where they were kept for seven years.

Now his own lawyers have miraculously found them and turned them in. One batch was in a closet in a building which has received tens of millions in funding from China and the other was in his home unsecured where his drug addict son who had connections to Ukraine and the CCP lived just upstairs.

Now we know the son's laptop was handed in to the FBI 3 years ago with all sorts of crazy things stored on it and been totally covered up. Now it is claimed the FBI was in cahoots with the social media companies in blocking the story from coming out.

You have to admit it does not look too good for a guy who is now in charge of the USA.

everlast75 · 15-01-2023 10:59PM

brickster69

Jan 15, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120112928#Comment_120112928
What has Trump in anyway got to do with this matter. He is under investigation and no doubt things will get sorted in time and if he has done wrong then he should get what he deserves.
This matter is about a VP who presumably took top secret documents with or without the right to do so, had no idea what was in them and no idea where they were kept for seven years.
Now his own lawyers have miraculously found them and turned them in. One batch was in a closet in a building which has received tens of millions in funding from China and the other was in his home unsecured where his drug addict son who had connections to Ukraine and the CCP lived just upstairs.
Now we know the son's laptop was handed in to the FBI 3 years ago with all sorts of crazy things stored on it and been totally covered up. Now it is claimed the FBI was in cahoots with the social media companies in blocking the story from coming out.
You have to admit it does not look too good for a guy who is now in charge of the USA.

"Now we know the son's laptop was handed in to the FBI 3 years ago with all sorts of crazy things stored on it and been totally covered up. Now it is claimed the FBI was in cahoots with the social media companies in blocking the story from coming out.."

If you believe that, then there's no convincing you that there is no there there.

Quin_Dub · 16-01-2023 01:45PM

Manic Moran

Jan 15, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120110448#Comment_120110448
Which is fair.
What's not fair is the idea that "It's not important because Trump's offenses are far worse".
If I were found with classified information at home, even if it was accidental, let alone with full co-operation after discovery, I'd be fired. These things are taken seriously, I had to buy a new non-smart-watch just to get into a place where such materials are kept yet still know what time it is. That's completely irrelevant to the matter that John Smith not only was fired, but he was put in jail, or alternatively if John Smith never existed.
Saying "Trump reacted worse" isn't much of an argument. It's even less an argument anyone cares about if one doesn't like or care much about Trump in the first place. What is relevant is the question of whether or not removal of classified material was a common practice for members of the executive. If it is, then there are two immediate follow-on questions: Why is this the case (and should it stop), and if so, then the finding of materials in any executive possession is in itself less of a scandal. If it is not, then both persons are subject to the same hard issues of violation of security.

As I see it there really are two separate blocks of offences.

Block A - Having Government documents in their possession when they shouldn't have.

Both Trump and Biden are potentially guilty here and the process of how the documents came to be where there were needs to be investigated.

The severity of the charges likely will be influenced by the sequence of events that led to the documents being where they were ultimately found. Also of concern is who might have had access to the documents when they were in Trump & Bidens possesion.

When were the documents removed from the "official" location to wherever they were found - Was is before or after either man left office?

To me , taking them after they left office seems more serious than a scenario where the documents were taken while in office and then not returned.

In Trumps case it would seem that the documents were taken by him or his staff when he was leaving office after he lost the Election. I don't think we've seen any information yet on when Biden moved/obtained the documents he had.

Block B - Obstructing the process of the return of the Documents to their rightful place and owner.

Here Trump appears to be all on his own, it seems that Biden has been 100% cooperative with the various groups and in fact was the one to draw their attention to documents that were found in his possession .

Trump on the other hand has lied and obstructed the efforts to get the documents back at every stage of the process and indeed continues to do so.

The Obstruction issues seems a potentially more serious charge than the possession - Although I'd caveat that by saying that depending on when/how they were taken and who might have had access to them , Block A could become more important.

Tony EH · 16-01-2023 04:02PM

What has Trump in anyway got to do with this matter.

He doesn't have anything to do with the matter concerning Biden. But you know that that's not the point being made. 🙄

brickster69 · 16-01-2023 07:27PM

Now it appears that Biden's lawyers never had security clearance to handle classified documents.

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1614842324743491584

MisterAnarchy · 16-01-2023 07:31PM

brickster69

Jan 16, 2023

Now it appears that Biden's lawyers never had security clearance to handle classified documents.
https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1614842324743491584

Its going to get alot worse for Biden before it gets better.

16-01-2023 08:42PM

brickster69

Jan 16, 2023

Now it appears that Biden's lawyers never had security clearance to handle classified documents.
https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1614842324743491584

The most interesting thing about that tweet is where its from.

RNC Research - "Exposing the lies, hypocrisy, and failed far-left policies of Joe Biden and the Democrat Party. Managed by the Republican National Committee."

ceadaoin. · 16-01-2023 09:57PM

The news clip in the tweet is from CBS news which definitely wouldn't be considered republican or right wing in any way.

Danzy · 16-01-2023 10:02PM

Kermit.de.frog

Jan 15, 2023

You'd have to say this whole thing is stunningly inept in light of Trump's criminality. Gives Trump supporters an avoidable moral beach head from which to throw stones. Just incompetent really.

It was normal practice for Presidents and VPs and more than that for years.

It was a certainty Biden had some.

Arrogance.

brickster69 · 16-01-2023 10:05PM

[Deleted User]

Jan 16, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120116895#Comment_120116895
The most interesting thing about that tweet is where its from.
RNC Research - "Exposing the lies, hypocrisy, and failed far-left policies of Joe Biden and the Democrat Party. Managed by the Republican National Committee."

I thought the video clip from CBS was far more interesting than whoever tweeted it. It was quite a good question and the congressman obviously had no answer at all to it did he.

It does seem strange though to hire lawyers to go through offices and garages and they just happen to stumble upon top secret documents by mistake.

MisterAnarchy · 17-01-2023 12:52AM

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/1615047770766774285

Another day another gaffe.

Joe cant even remember someones name so is it any wonder he forgot about all the clasified documents.

MisterAnarchy · 17-01-2023 01:24AM

Danzy

Jan 16, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120111065#Comment_120111065
It was normal practice for Presidents and VPs and more than that for years.
It was a certainty Biden had some.
Arrogance.

Rule for thee but not for me.

Pompous virtue signalling hypocrites.

Beasty · 17-01-2023 10:27AM

Danzy threadbanned

MadYaker · 17-01-2023 03:26PM

Danzy

Jan 16, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120111065#Comment_120111065
It was normal practice for Presidents and VPs and more than that for years.
It was a certainty Biden had some.
Arrogance.

I wonder how far does it go back? I wouldn’t be surprised if Obama and Bush did it as well. It’s obviously a cultural issue within the executive that needs to be addressed.

It’s embarrassing but Biden is certainly handling this better than trump did.

everlast75 · 17-01-2023 03:38PM

MadYaker

Jan 17, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117542#Comment_120117542
I wonder how far does it go back? I wouldn’t be surprised if Obama and Bush did it as well. It’s obviously a cultural issue within the executive that needs to be addressed.
It’s embarrassing but Biden is certainly handling this better than trump did.

I'm old enough to remember when the previous administration likened it to a failure to return library books.

In that scenario, Biden returned them straight away. 45 hide them, claimed he owned them, lied that he returned them and then berated the library for trying to get them back.

duploelabs · 20-01-2023 08:50AM

I'm sure both sides can support this

Democrats introduce constitutional amendment to reverse Citizens United campaign finance ruling

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3819814-democrats-introduce-constitutional-amendment-to-reverse-citizens-united-campaign-finance-ruling/%20

A group of House Democrats introduced a constitutional amendment on Thursday to overturn a Supreme Court ruling that eliminated restrictions on corporate campaign spending. The Supreme Court’…

everlast75 · 20-01-2023 03:59PM

duploelabs

Jan 20, 2023

I'm sure both sides can support this
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3819814-democrats-introduce-constitutional-amendment-to-reverse-citizens-united-campaign-finance-ruling/%20

The only both-sides-ism that republicans won't engage in...

MisterAnarchy · 20-01-2023 07:32PM

https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1615829711724109826

CNN finally doing some proper journalism.

Not looking great for Joe it has to be said.

20-01-2023 08:06PM

MisterAnarchy

Jan 20, 2023

https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1615829711724109826
CNN finally doing some proper journalism.
Not looking great for Joe it has to be said.

It isn't illegal for public officials’ family members to invoke their names in private business deals. Unethical maybe, but not illegal. Once again an attempt at a gotcha that really isn't one.

MisterAnarchy · 20-01-2023 08:27PM

[Deleted User]

Jan 20, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135638#Comment_120135638
It isn't illegal for public officials’ family members to invoke their names in private business deals. Unethical maybe, but not illegal. Once again an attempt at a gotcha that really isn't one.

Did you listen to the clip ?

20-01-2023 08:52PM

MisterAnarchy

Jan 20, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135763#Comment_120135763
Did you listen to the clip ?

Yep, and I read the article associated with it. CNN refers to it as a "partisan probe" and that's exactly what it is.

ceadaoin. · 20-01-2023 08:53PM

[Deleted User]

Jan 20, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135638#Comment_120135638
It isn't illegal for public officials’ family members to invoke their names in private business deals. Unethical maybe, but not illegal. Once again an attempt at a gotcha that really isn't one.

The headline reads "Joe Biden did interact with some of his son's associates while serving as Vice President."

How is that just 'invoking his name'?

20-01-2023 08:57PM

ceadaoin.

Jan 20, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135763#Comment_120135763
The headline reads "Joe Biden did interact with some of his son's associates while serving as Vice President."
How is that just 'invoking his name'?

"It's unclear exactly what was discussed". This is going nowhere.

patnor1011 · 22-01-2023 05:12AM

It seems that question of the day is "Where didn't Biden illegally store classified documents?"

The Department of Justice found "six items consisting of documents with classification markings" during a Friday search of President Joe Biden's home in Wilmington, Delaware, according to a Saturday statement by the president's personal lawyers.

xxxxxxl · 22-01-2023 05:23AM

So It appears it's systemic Safe storage seems a red herring at this stage. Worrying that it's not Just POTUS of the day at it seems it's Others. Some had said with more knowledge you cant just walk out with this stuff. It's the forgetting to bring it back issue. I mean Jesus a Library card system would a simple solution. I would have thought You take something out Sign a form saying for how long. That's put into a automated system that flags up when it's not returned on that date. If not that's total incompetence or by design To get around things.

AbusesToilets · 22-01-2023 09:10AM

duploelabs

Jan 20, 2023

I'm sure both sides can support this
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3819814-democrats-introduce-constitutional-amendment-to-reverse-citizens-united-campaign-finance-ruling/%20

I wouldn't have thought it required an Amendment to accomplish this. Why not a normal bill? Not that either would have a hope of garnering support from Republicans.

Igotadose · 22-01-2023 10:06AM

AbusesToilets

Jan 22, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120132689#Comment_120132689
I wouldn't have thought it required an Amendment to accomplish this. Why not a normal bill? Not that either would have a hope of garnering support from Republicans.

Because the SCOTUS ruled it was protected speech under the 1st amendment, so there'd need to be something done to the Constitution to change it.

brickster69 · 22-01-2023 12:10PM

JustTakeTheTrade

Jan 22, 2023

Nudge nudge
https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-white-house-says-six-more-classified-documents-found-in-search-of-us-presidents-home-12792511
Pretty crappy what they are doing to get Biden out tbh. Washington is the ultimate cess pit.

"some of which were from the President’s service in the Senate". Sounds like this has been going on for a while considering he was VP from 2009. Surely some sort of records must be kept about how many he took and how many have been returned up to now.

MisterAnarchy · 22-01-2023 03:26PM

brickster69

Jan 22, 2023

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140971#Comment_120140971
"some of which were from the President’s service in the Senate". Sounds like this has been going on for a while considering he was VP from 2009. Surely some sort of records must be kept about how many he took and how many have been returned up to now.

Just how classified are these documents in reality though ?

Are all Government documents classed as classified even if its just basic day to day standard procedure stuff ?

It seems there is a 5 year statute of limitations on classified documents so Biden is unlikely to face any charges.

evolvingtipperary101 · 22-01-2023 03:44PM

Imagine if Hunter Biden ran and won. Be some craic then.

Joe Biden Presidency thread Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21

Comments

Democrats introduce constitutional amendment to reverse Citizens United campaign finance ruling

Welcome!

Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

Comments

Democrats introduce constitutional amendment to reverse Citizens United campaign finance ruling

Welcome!

Joe Biden Presidency thread Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21