Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Meanwhile in russia........

Why not ? Aaah sure besides the fact that it could lead to global Armageddon, what can they do ?

Are you serious.....besides "Nuclear Weapons" what can they do ??? Have you any idea, whatsoever about what it is youre actually talking about ?

This time last year you probably couldnt point Ukraine out on a world map if it wasnt named for you, but 11 months later you think itd be acceptable to lose everyone and everything youve ever loved, have the society YOUVE come to depend on, with its health care , easy access to food and clean water, consumables on demand and basically every 1st world perk youve learned to enjoy since birth to be wiped out, only to be replaced by a radioactive nightmare where society has become a kill or be killed scenario as food etc begins to run out .....really ?

This isnt a Hollywood movie where a white knight arrives and everything is saved.

This is something you think is an acceptable alternative to what you have now ?

Stop talking bollox and cop on to yourself.

Who told him that ?

Do you prefer to be held hostage by every nuke wielding idiot as a result ??

War is raging in Europe ... we picked a side ... Now its time to end it ..There are certain ways to accomplish this.. Europe could send in troops to Ukraine to relieve the border guards on the Belarusian border, freeing them up to fight in the east for instance.

There will be no NATO or European troops in Ukraine. Foreign volunteers are the most that will ever happen

Yes,I've seen that,Very upsetting viewing.

The death toll has climbed to 40, from 30 yesterday.

..

I was replying to weisses post saying "Apart from nuclear weapons what else can they do ?"

I too don't believe that Russia will use nuclear weapons in Europe or Ukraine as they too would be turned into glass.

What I don't like is this apparent dismissal or cavalier attitude towards the actual consequences nuclear weapons can have....weisses throw away statement is ridiculous in that its like "Ah sure its just nuclear weapons, nothing major like".

Like many on here, I grew up in the 70s and 80s when the Cold War was in full swing and the threat of nuclear war was very real indeed.

The situation we have now, although it remains very unlikely, has the potential to escalate slowly but very surely to a point where the possibility of nuclear weapons being used, even tactical ones, becomes more of a potential possibility.

Major conflicts throughout history very rarely developed into a full on war quickly or over night, they simmered, there was toing and froing, there were gains and losses on both sides but ever so slowly but surely, they ratchet up, up to a point where its sh1t or bust and one of them loses the cool or faces losing the battle and that's when its at its most dangerous.

We were all riding on the crest of a wave since the end of WW2, where Europe enjoyed decades of peace or just limited conflicts (Serbia V Croatia etc. ), there is a whole demographic of people that have never had the spectre of war, never mind nuclear war hang over them, and they seem to see this continuing war between Russia and Ukraine as some kind of spectator sport, where we all pick sides and hope the baddy gets his ass whooped by the good guy.

That's not how these conflicts go, irrespective of whatever we'd all love to see happen in Ukraine i.e. Russia get destroyed in every way imaginable - this conflict could very easily, over many many months, slowly escalate to the point where the unthinkable becomes the possible and I don't care if any of you start saying "No No that's just what Russia wants you to think" - No one, not even those people know how this war is going to turn out and dismissing the power and utter devastation even a limited nuclear exchange could have on ALL our lives is a bad idea.

The chances of this happening are minimal but any possibility, even remote possibilities need to be respected and never dismissed.

I accept it seems ambitious but if we project forward to the end of this war and the demise of Putin, it seems a collapse of the Russian federation and / or a massive internal power struggle (or even a civil war) are almost inevitable outcomes. With it's economy in ruins, a terminal demographic decline, it's military strength spent and most of it's wealth stolen by Putin and the Oligarchs: whatever version of Russia is left is going to be in am absolutely desperate state. That presents an opportunity for nuclear disarmament to be a condition of the lifting of sanctions and a modern, perhaps EU lead, version of the Marshall plan to help rebuild it's economy.

As you say, no matter who's in charge, they're unlikely to give up their nukes completely but that should be the opening position of whoever's leading the post-war negotiations with the goal of removing their capability to ever use nukes in a first strike e.g. deplete their stockpile to a small percentage of what it is today. Economically, it could even be argued that the reduction in the maintenance bill would be essential for the rebuilding of their nation.

We all should be scared witless of a collapsed Russia, that would make the Ukrainian crisis look like a little blip, the economic carnage of the world's largest oil producer going kaput, nevermind wheat etc.

Russia is on it's way to collapse in some form, it's inevitable.

But this isn't the 1950s.

Too many Russians have experienced the comforts of the West the past 2 decades, there will be stomach to become the new North Korea.

They might not even have much oil if China decides to do a bit of land grabbing themselves.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Germans, whatever targets they set for renewables, they will probably exceed. They won't be putting too many eggs into the basket with Russia again, not unless they are fully sure they will be a reliable partner.

We don't pick sides in this one. It's Russia vs. the western world which include Ireland with all its neutrality. If you don't believe me, have a look at the latest gas/oil/electricity bill. That's the economic side of the war.

Germany is much more dependent on China, Russia's older and much nastier Communist sibling.

Frying pan fire and eggs in one basket etc.

Wagnerites take the village of Sil NW of Soledar