Russia - threadbanned users in OP

what good are F16s in a highly contested airspace?

Neither side has air superiority here due to the high prevalence of AA installations and MANPADs, and that is not going to change any time soon

Artillery pieces are what is needed, not wunderwaffen stuff like F16s, A10s, etc

Things just keep getting baffling by the day. Now we have wanger baldy No 1 apparently praising and supporting the Ukraine army for defending Soledar and Bakhmut.

Quote

The Ukrainian army is bravely fighting for Bakhmut and Soledar. Reports of their mass desertion are not true," Prigozhin said, cited by his press office on Telegram.

well it was widely accepted here that the Ukrainians are asking for much more than they expect to get, so that western allies will "compromise" and give them what they actually want. Ask for A10s, get HIMARs. Ask for ABRAMS, get M777s etc.

Ukrainians still have MiGs and Sukhois in their air force too - but they cant be used to massive efficiency because of the prevalence of AA. Why would F16s be different?

Ukraine needs artillery pieces, not planes. This is where they are being outgunned, and what is responsible for most of Russian advances. (that and the cannon fodder) All the interviews with soldiers on the ground note as the #1 aspect - Russians have far more artillery

Even if they escape justice in the Hague, and continue to enjoy the high life with their ill gotten gains, they will never know a minutes peace. They will only have intrigue, treachery, infighting, plotting and planning. Never knowing when death will come to them or their families, the only certainly being that death will come, but in what form? It will be like the infighting that happens with the drug cartels. Look at Putin's behavior and life at the moment...surrounded by guardians that he cannot trust 100%, can go nowhere, or do anything that a person in normal life does. He's effectively a prisoner in his own nightmare.

How did a dog get so fat in Bakhmut?

converting the aircraft they have is infinitely more attractive than getting F16s and other aircraft that the UA airforce has no history of flying. The training alone, even at an advanced rate, would take so long as to be almost worthless

Would take so long it would be worthless....

You think the war will be over in a few months and you think Ukraine will be going back buying new planes from Russia then?

Ultimately Ukraine will be buying NATO equipment when this war is over. May as well start training now. Better to know how to use the equipment and not need it, than have the equipment and not know how to use it.

Seems to have been little forward planning on the west, HIMARS, Patriots, NASAMS, IRIS and now the IFV's. Ukraine troops could have been training on these months before they were announced as being given. Basically let them hit the ground running with the equipment.

One positive side effect of these high oil / gaz prices is that they will do more to turn Ireland ( and Europe) away from fossil fuels than all of what the Green Party are doing. Just ask any Solar Panel installation company now for a quote and time frame for fitting. Not only will this affect Putin's fuel sales ( as it already has) but all the other oil / gaz producers world wide too.

The amount of aid Ukraine can realistically get is finite - politics and logistics gets in the way.

So why ask for F16s given that there is a huge logistical mountain to climb to get any use out of them, when they could instead ask for more M777s, HIMARs, grenade launchers, mortars, and most importantly - artillery shells which are in short supply. All of this would have a bigger and more immediate impact than enrolling Ukrainian pilots in an F16 program and training all the engineers/support staff to be able to maintain F16s.

Though it may seem like it at times, the chequebook is most certainly not unlimited. There is an opportunity cost for various types of military aid given that the full wishlist will never be fulfilled. With that in mind, F16s are an awful choice.

F16s vs random joe in Meath

..

I don't even know if Ukraine has officially asked for F16's or just every Twitter user asking for them instead.

It's also not a case of Ukraine can only have this or that. Oh you can't have an F16 cause you choose HIMARS instead, no tanks because you choose a Bradley etc...

It's also a case of rational thinking. Artillery shells are in short supply, but dumb bombs are plentiful, ergo give Ukraine JDAMS. Hopefully they come to the same conclusion with the SAAB smart bombs launched from standard rockets. Both are plentiful and can't piss Russia off because they ain't ATACMS.

As for the chequebook, plenty of the aid has been stock items. The Bradley's are already bought and paid for years ago and sitting idle in storage, same goes for other IFV's.

Poland getting leopards to replace T72's given to Ukraine, again the leopards already bought and paid for. Net cost pretty much zero.

I didn't think the fighting around Bakhmut could get any more intense after the Russians started throwing waves at it a couple of months ago but since their breakthrough into Soledar it has somehow.

They're doubling down trying to solidify their gains and Ukraine throwing in reinforcements trying to hold the line. I hope the outcome is favourable if not hopefully they can hold the line at the river.

That's what they have already been doing they flattened anything they could to prevent the orcs having strong points, while the Russian put a serious amount of artillery into soledar too ,

They need aircraft and the right munitions at this point, along with armor they can fight 24/7 in .

Look at bakhmut