Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Wibbs · 07-01-2023 12:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077720#Comment_120077720

The most we could do unless we threw countless billions over more than a decade at it would be to "challenge" an invader just before we got shot out of the sky. I'd increase our air fleet for watching our seas alright, more for illegal fishing and the like. As an offensive force, again total pie in the sky.

Asymmetric insurgency wars are essentially unwinnable even for superpowers. Both the US and the Soviets and in the past the British and French found that out. Even if you do kinda win like the US in Afghanistan it's unimaginably expensive to do so and look what happened in the end? No fighter jets involved. TBH I think folks like the idea of fighter jets flying the flag overhead, but the reality is unless you're a superpower like the US with a bottomless wallet they're almost useless.

My take is fight smart. Yes the US and likely the UK and othe EU forces would come to our aid with their air and sea powers and most of all intel, so accept that. Accept we're not a superpower or a particularly militaristic nation. However bolster that likely support with realities on the ground. More army, more insurgency, more anti air/tank/personnel kit. In essence "Do a Ukraine". A dozen HIMARS have done far more damage to Russia and not just in men and materiel, than one F16 could hope to do. Hell more than 20 F16's could likely do, and for a fraction of the costs, time and support systems.

Gatling · 07-01-2023 12:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077645#Comment_120077645

Again depending variant and equipment on said aircraft,the Brazil deals involves license agreements to produce assembly in Brazil , it's really simple the Brazilian Gripens are the latest and larger Gripen E /F variants which is different to earlier model's A-C

Get F16s lol.

The Swedish JAS 39 Gripen, of variants C and D, is notorious for being one of the cheapest new 4 or 4.5 generation fighter jets around. Its cost could go as low as $30 million per piece, a bargain for such an advanced machine.

Its latest variants, the E and F, changed that. While they are still much cheaper to operate than 5th generation fighter jets, the cost of one such jet has more than doubled. An explanation of that lies in jets’ differences: almost everything, except for the airframe, got upgraded. New radar, engine, avionics, improved weapons systems – very little remained of the old Gripen.

In 2012, the new-generation JAS 39 was expected to cost over $100 million. It is only in the latest years that Saab managed to reduce the price, and with the reduction, the Gripen once again became a sought-after jet on the international market.

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/27553-top-10-most-expensive-fighter-jets-in-2021

Gatling · 07-01-2023 12:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077586#Comment_120077586

Bet some people didn't see that coming 🤣🤣🤣

Bass Reeves · 07-01-2023 12:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077586#Comment_120077586

Why are we surprised/ not surprised

cnocbui · 07-01-2023 12:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077760#Comment_120077760

He did better than that:

The order of Russian President Vladimir Putin to introduce the so-called "Christmas truce" published on the Kremlin's website refers to a ceasefire on the territory of Ukraine.

Thus, the leader of the aggressor country acknowledged that hostilities were taking place in a neighboring state, and neglected pseudo-referendums held at gunpoint by Russian machine guns on the annexation of "new territories."

As evidenced by a screenshot of the released document, Putin officially recognizes that the area along the collision line is part of Ukraine.

briany · 07-01-2023 02:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077156#Comment_120077156

https://twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1503087161616314370?t=qKKCGezsxEc43VTq7h0m9Q&s=19

...

jmreire · 07-01-2023 02:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077676#Comment_120077676

The real immorality was when the US failed to uphold and defend Ukrainian Territory back in Feb 22 when the Ruzzians invaded , after promising to do so in return for Ukraine handing over its nuclear weapons.

jmreire · 07-01-2023 02:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077720#Comment_120077720

You have to look at it from Khordorkovsky's point of view... I'd say that he may be planning a return to Russian politics in the great upheaval that's expected. So he cannot make the Russian people a scapegoat,,, that position is reserved for Putin and his minions.

Mike3549 · 07-01-2023 02:43PM

And heres the tweet from mr know-it-all

briany · 07-01-2023 02:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078116#Comment_120078116

If you're referring to the Budapest Memorandum, I see no clause which explicitly obligates the US to directly intervene on Ukraine's behalf if attacked by Russia.

Respect the signatory's independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
Refrain from the threat or the use of force against the signatory.
Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by the signatory of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against the signatory.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments

The US has been providing much assistance to Ukraine, beginning from 2014 and increasing from there in terms of weapons and training, and this isn't even in the case of nuclear weapons being used, per clause 4. I have a feeling that some terms were left deliberately vague upon the original drafting as diplomats on either side would have been keen not write themselves into a corner over Ukraine. Zelenskyy has said that he's dubious over Western commitment to the Budapest Memorandum, but then his M.O. has always been maximum pressure, and if he thought that assistance meant direct intervention, I don't know if he really believes that or if it's a case of reach for the stars and grab the moon, similar to asking NATO to close the sky. He knew he wouldn't get that, probably, but he'd take everything short of it.

rogber · 07-01-2023 03:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076817#Comment_120076817

No doubt someone who'd rule the world in line with your ideas. Look forward to reading the manifesto

Kermit.de.frog · 07-01-2023 03:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078116#Comment_120078116

The US was never going to go to war with Russia to protect Ukraine risking plunging all of Eastern Europe in to war and the use of nuclear weapons.

Ukraine have been provided defensive equipment to protect themselves.

That is all the west can do unfortunately.

Gatling · 07-01-2023 03:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078293#Comment_120078293

But we now know that Russia were a busted flush, oh we have thousands of tanks, aircraft and millions of men ,

Now they have lost 60+ % of all of their tanks, large numbers of aircraft and other vehicles destroyed,an invasion force of 180,000 men essentially gone , another 300,000 called up 8 weeks later they are calling up another 500,000 men and are still losing and losing badly.

Don't help Ukraine,it will escalate thing , don't give Ukraine weapons it will only escalate things,

Now we have Western armor heading to Ukraine and still people want to side with the Russians.

They may as well send Nato full steam into ukraine and finish this off in a week

briany · 07-01-2023 03:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078370#Comment_120078370

It's likely that NATO has always known Russia was a paper tiger in terms of its conventional military. I don't think it's on that basis that NATO has hesitated to have a direct confrontation. It seems to be the policy not to go toe to toe with nuclear powers, and it seems like that's still being followed.

Run Forest Run · 07-01-2023 04:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078370#Comment_120078370

You've got to be pretty naive (or perhaps wilfully ignorant) to think Nato are not already in this fight.

Nato general secretary Jens Stoltenberg basically admitted as much several months ago, when he stated that a Russian victory in Ukraine would be "a defeat for us all"... and as far as most Russians are concerned, this is a war against the west not just Ukraine.

The real question is, why has such a powerful alliance of nations struggled so badly for almost an entire year now to defeat one nation - and a nation that you characterize as a "busted flush"?? Surely all of this enormous expenditure of high spec western weaponry, should have already made mince meat of such a weak nation? But yet here we are...

Mike3549 · 07-01-2023 04:26PM

Forest how many NATO troops are in UA?

Strazdas · 07-01-2023 04:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078497#Comment_120078497

Putin's aim was to take all of Ukraine in a week and install a fascist pro-Russian Federation puppet government. By any stretch of the imagination, that has been a spectacular failure.

Podge_irl · 07-01-2023 04:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078497#Comment_120078497

NATO in the fight 😂

All they've essentially done so far is provide some outdated, surplus stocks of Soviet era equipment. The few pieces of more modern tech like the 90s era HIMARs are causing the Russians to **** their pants. There is now debate about potentially sending outdated tech that is being replaced anyway, but which will still massively outclass any Russian equipment on the battlefield - hopefully that happens soon.

07-01-2023 04:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078497#Comment_120078497

Is this the level of self delusion - copium - required to get you out of the bed each morning?

That’s up there with believing that putting a tooth under your pillow will attract the tooth fairy. Apologies in advance if I’ve spoiled the tooth fairy for you.

Wibbs · 07-01-2023 04:39PM

Well...

dennis72 · 07-01-2023 04:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078497#Comment_120078497

I though u where banned already

The site that comes from putin bots is unreliable 1+1=3

The nation u defend had its chance to normalise

Get the fcku out of Ukraine ur getting a slow death as per US/NATO and the 100k+ to 0 longer u stay the bigger the bullets

PutNob

Cordell · 07-01-2023 04:44PM

Russia is loosing against NATO even though they sent exactly zero troops into the fight. Just as they lost their admiral warship to a country with no navy.

Gatling · 07-01-2023 04:49PM

Son put down the crack pipe,

Them narcotics are doing you no favours

dennis72 · 07-01-2023 04:53PM

And ur air force and navy are a joke the kremlin is probably a cardboard cutout, putnobs are nazi pedos from what we have seen in action

Gatling · 07-01-2023 04:57PM

Bakhmut like we haven't already seen.and that's only a few meters of the battlefield imagine the sight of the area's surrounding bakhmut and elsewhere

Caution dead orc's visible

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1611733418756440066?s=20&t=QCnZpU_z4jP-p7T4J87Auw

Wibbs · 07-01-2023 05:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078497#Comment_120078497

You've got to be pretty naive (or perhaps wilfully ignorant) to think Nato are not already in this fight.

Oh they are, and not just NATO. There are also almost certainly spooks on the ground too. It's the chance of a generation for weapons and tactical people.

Nato general secretary Jens Stoltenberg basically admitted as much several months ago, when he stated that a Russian victory in Ukraine would be "a defeat for us all"... and as far as most Russians are concerned, this is a war against the west not just Ukraine.

Jens was and remains right. Russian's concerns are what putin has groomed them to be concerned about, to take away from many issues and questions on the home front, issues that have been building for some time.

And if it is a war against the "west", then Russia will lose. It already has. Even if they took all of Ukraine tomorrow. Never mind that thousands of Russians have been killed or maimed in pursuit of this folly. Never mind that no actual NATO forces are coming home in body bags. Result for NATO.

They're almost entirely isolated from Western finance. You know the bit that actually counts? Always follow the money. Their access to shipping, aeronatics, insurance, leasing has fallen to a trickle, their exports have fallen off a cliff, their "friends" China and India are getting firesale prices for the oil they can ship and the same "friends" followed the evil west in areas like aviation and shipping. And their previously lucrative international arms sales? Dead as a dodo. Why would anyone want to buy Russian kit now? When such a "strong" nation has to go running to places like Iran and North Korea for kit, well..

Their extremely lucrative cashflow of energy sales to the EU has pretty much dried up and that won't be restarted for the foreseeable future. Well the extremely lucrative cashflow to a tiny minority of obsenely wealthy elite. Anything the average Russian gets are scraps from that table and they tend to fall in the west of Russia. And that's gone now. 40 years of it. Doh!

The real question is, why has such a powerful alliance of nations struggled so badly for almost an entire year now to defeat one nation - and a nation that you characterize as a "busted flush"?? Surely all of this enormous expenditure of high spec western weaponry, should have already made mince meat of such a weak nation? But yet here we are...

Because contrary to the Russian spin you seem so eager to swallow like Mother Russia's milk, the "powerful alliance of nations" is expending a tiny fraction of their resources to drip feed Ukraine weapons, many of which are hand me downs, most of which aren't fully integrated like they would be in an actual NATO force. NATO don't want to go in directly. I strongly suspect even if Russia had no nuclear weapons, they'd still not physically go in. Why should they? They're breaking the back of Russian forces and Russia herself for the bargain of the century. A bargain that putin handed them on a silver platter. He had so many options and chose the stupid one.

And be under no illusions; if NATO actually went in as a force Russia would be routed quicker than a Kremlin spin doctor could paint it as a tactic. Even a single US carrier group sailing into the Black Sea would bugger them badly. If NATO armoured divisons streamed in from the west? Never mind NATO's air power? In essence Russia would have to go nuclear to try and stop it.

Wibbs · 07-01-2023 05:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078518#Comment_120078518

No Strazdas, that was a clever feint. The fact that so many of them actually believe that shows the level of saturation propaganda they're doused with. If it were a feint, that actually makes things worse.

Wibbs · 07-01-2023 05:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078565#Comment_120078565

Actually I am not in favour of this banning stuff, just because they're on the other side. I say play on. It's very instructive on how so many think.

jmreire · 07-01-2023 05:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078293#Comment_120078293

It was an awful pity then that at the time the nuclear disarmament deal was being agreed that the US and other guarantors did not mention the fact that it was only a provisional guarantee. And in that case, Ukraine would not have given up their Nuclear weapons, and for sure, Putin would not have even thought about invading a nuclear armed Ukraine. Ypu can be damn sure that any other nuclear armed state will take US ( or other Countrys) security guarantee's with a pinch pf salt after this debacle.

zv2 · 07-01-2023 05:20PM

FFS has she got a clue about anything?

https://twitter.com/antidantiruss/status/1611733162924691458?s=20&t=Q_7zuemN2yGq1YBF0VptVA

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Comments