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Mains supply energy monitoring

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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Hi,

    Going back to the original poster, I use shelly EM for exactly this purpose. I use a 120a CT Clamp on the mains cable. I added this to my Home assistant configuration to get cumulative meter readings.

      # ----- Special ---- #
      cum_energy_from_grid:
        unique_id: "cum_energy_from_grid"
        source: sensor.import_total_energy
        name: Cumulative Energy from Grid
        tariffs:
          - peak
          - offpeak
    

    By not including a cycle value it will just increase for every more, I can also set daily, weekly, monthly cycles etc. Grafana works fine with the Shelly EM and I also use the Energy dashboard with a suitable cost inputs sensors. The shelly is good because it will keep a running total of energy used even if internet connectivity goes. They are built first and foremost of the EU market as opposed to the American Market.

    You mentioned you have a socket near where you want to take the measurements, wiring into a socket isn't an issue and I believe the Shelly terminals can take upto 4mm. I'd recommend using a Waco to make the power connections though, to avoid the fully current passing through the terminals. For illustration see below wiring for a shelly 1PM (absolutely don't use one of these, just for illustration of Waco connectors).

    For Consumer unit installation this is my board. A qualified RECI would be able to install one in like 10 minutes and I got them installed as part of other work. I sourced the din mounts from a specialist as Shelly doesn't provide anything like that. You maybe tempted to do this yourself but there are lots of pitfalls even if you don't electrocute yourself right off the bat. I only include the below because I believe it should not be a mystery what you're looking to get done. I've had a outdoor socket installed by a RECI electrician once and when I had other work happening in the house the electrician took one look at it, said it was missing an earth and was using a borrowed neutral (so could be live even when off at the board in some circumstances) and he just disconnected the entire thing. It's good to have a full awareness of what you want done and how it should be done even if you have no intention of doing it yourself.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Nelbert


    Those rails are really neat and tidy looking. Can you share where you got them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    There doesn't seem to be anything in the forum charter against it, so here you go: https://shellyparts.de/. I've no affiliation with them and as far as I know it's pretty much the only place you can source them. Everything is in German but that's not an issue really these days. You can get them in multiple orientations and they're 3D printed. He's got lot's of little bits and pieces on offer.

    It's worth stating again, mounting something in the consumer unit should be left to a RECI but nothing stopping you getting the gear to make a nice job of it and handy for them on the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭NewClareman


    I don't think that this is correct. When an approved electrician carries out work on the consumer unit he then has to certify that his work follows the National Rules for Electrical Installations (I.S. 10101:2020)

    It is my understanding that only devices that are type approved meet that standard. That could rule out the Shelly units and would certainly rule out 3D printed mountings. If I'm correct you would be voiding your house insurance by doing what you suggest.

    I'm retired and don't have ready access to the various technical documents. Before going ahead I suggest you raise a query in the electrical forum to clarify what I have just said. Electrical faults happen, property gets damaged and people get hurt. The last thing you want to happen is to find yourself uninsured in such a situation.

    Mind yourself...

    Post edited by NewClareman on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    I think you've made your point a few times already.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Nelbert


    My thinking was to get a sparks to fit the mount when I've another piece of work to be done in the near future.

    You've made your point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Since the main point seems to have changed with the edit, Ill address it. I'm not a RECI Electrician however I do not think you are correct with regards the mounts. I've look at several other din mounts and their manufactures list no statements of compliance beyond compliance of RoHS which is unrelated and voluntary. It would appear at the EU level at least there is no regulations (though obviously their are standards) covering mounts specifically.

    Regarding weather or not the Shelly EM itself is allowed within a consumer unit, this link lists the regulations https://kb.shelly.cloud/knowledge-base/shelly-em that the device meets and their own website provides references to consumer unit installations. They do sell a version of the Shelly EM that has it's own integrated din mount. A quick comparison between the Shelly and the Eaton Power meter installed for my solar inverter indicates that EN 61010-1 : 2011 is the odd one out on the Shelly EM list, though interestingly it is included on the din mounted Shelly 3EM version. I guess that's the equivalent EU Regs for the one you've listed. So there is definitely a conformity gap. Whether that means the Shelly EM's cannot be installed in the consumer unit or not or if such an installation would void insurance, we can only speculate. If this is something that worries some folks, you could purchase the Shelly 3EM instead or house the Shelly's outside the CU, as per what the original poster suggested. The Shelly 3EM wont fit in a standard Irish consumer unit enclosure however.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭NewClareman


    @Manion Look, I'm not trying to pick an argument with you, ultimately you'll do what you'll do.

    This whole area is a minefield of standards and regulations, which must be followed if an installation is to be compliant. I strongly recommend that you talk to someone with experience in the area or contact Safe Electric Ireland. https://safeelectric.ie/contact-us/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    Likewise I'm not arguing with you, it does appear that the Shelly EM is not in compliance with at least EN 610101:2011 (though is with other Regs). I don't think anyone has disagreed with the points you've raised. As mentioned in my post I had the devices installed by a RECI but perhaps this is an oversight or perhaps that EN 61010 isn't required for installation of a CT Clamp. If someone wants a shelly that meets that reg, the Shelly 3EM lists it on it's statement of compliance and crucially the original poster isn't proposing to put the shelly in a consumer unit.



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