Avatar 2

johnny_ultimate · 19-12-2022 12:10pm

Perhaps we can crowdsource a simple list of Irish HFR sites here, since the venues themselves don’t seem to be advertising the fact? If you did see it in HFR mention it in your post (specific screen if possible!) and I’ll put it together in a list if needed.

SheepsClothing · 19-12-2022 12:35pm

I seen it on the MAXX screen in Omniplex Rathmines.

Movies@cinemas advertise HFR 3D screenings at their Dundrum, Tallaght and Dungarvon locations.

yourdeadwright · 19-12-2022 5:06pm

I seen this on Saturday in 3D and it was unreal viewing ,

They really did go all out to make the 3D fantastic, Film was decent to

Really enjoyed the experience

yourdeadwright · 19-12-2022 5:13pm

Is the Isense in the Oden at the point HFR

kerplun k · 20-12-2022 11:06am

Watched in 3D, IMAX, in Cineworld. I was blown away.

Really immersive and enjoyable experience. So much so that I'd find it hard to review it as a film. There's a story going on here for sure and it does the job of keeping you engaged, it plods alone nicely and the stakes are refreshingly central to the lead characters and in the grand scheme of things, low stakes, but I was so lost in the sound and imagery, the story is very much secondary.

It almost feels like a 3 hour theme park experience that makes you feel like you're in Pandora, it completely held my attention, never was I checking my watch or bored. I think this is a spectacular triumph from James Cameron. I can only applaud what he's achieved here.

Beric Dondarrion · 20-12-2022 11:21am

Saw it last night. It was ok......far too long. A good 45 minutes could easily have been trimmed without doing any damage to the overall plot or story. The 3D worked very well in some places (the underwater scenes with the wildlife in particular). It does drag in the middle but when things go up a gear or three in the final third its enjoyable. Has to be seen on the big screen IMHO.

flexcon · 20-12-2022 12:01pm

Saw it last light. I'm a fan.

Didn't feel the need to get my phone out once. The visuals are just incredible and I actually felt like In was there.

Top marks from me

pixelburp · 20-12-2022 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003477#Comment_120003477

I love Kermode, but having only just listened to his review it's possibly his most unlistenable output in years. Trying waaaaay too hard to the point it doesn't feel like an honest opinion, but an attempt to recreate that infamous Sex & The City 2 review. The "comedy" voices being especially annoying.

cml387 · 20-12-2022 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017727#Comment_120017727

You could tell that Simon M was getting increasingly annoyed at the silly voice. Having been a big fan of the show on BBC, what I've seen of the new version is a bit meh.

silverharp · 20-12-2022 1:43pm

I was getting inbetween vibes from , oh friends

johnny_ultimate · 20-12-2022 6:52pm

The more I think about it, the more impressed I am by the final act action here. Yes, it's a big ol' explosion-filled CG finale, but man it really goes to show that can still work when you have people who know what they are doing. The spatial geography and editing of the action is crystal clear. The bit with the arm (you know the bit :P) is a great, self-contained example of carefully putting together simple action beats with a pitch-perfect pay-off. And some of the directorial choices, like a camera right there in the submarine cockpits as they fill with water, add real immediacy and impact.

Cameron is hardly the only great action director working today, but when anonymous, dull action sequences are the norm it's refreshing to see a big, expensive third-act done right.

Big Gerry · 20-12-2022 8:51pm

James Cameron gives Avatar fans the finger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms-TzR7zCEc

SuperBowserWorld · 20-12-2022 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019039#Comment_120019039

I'd prefer he'd spend the budgets he has on more grounded action movies. They pack way more punch.

And he's a brilliant action movie director.

But he's gone from subtle special effects to 300 % CGI.

For me he's running out of time to ever direct/produce anything like his pre Avator movies ever again. He's signed up to Avator stuff for years ..

Mad_maxx · 20-12-2022 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017727#Comment_120017727

At the best of times, Kermodes smugness is hard going but he was truly insufferable with this review ( and I don’t even care for Avatar)

silverharp · 21-12-2022 9:39am

A random post on Twitter, but an interesting metric to predict where a film ends up. going by that it would be up with Top Gun but financially still technically losing money

https://twitter.com/CharlieSchmidt1/status/1604539489249939456

TheIrishGrover · 21-12-2022 11:30am

I must admit, I did find that Kermode review very..... odd (I think even Simon did too. He seemed quite unamused). And I'm a big fan of Kermode for years. Well, may be his cough meds :)

So I went to see it last night..... Well, it looked very good..... at times. But, IMHO (And as I expected), it's not a very good movie. I'll try to be as vague as possible.

Some of the baddies really didn't look great at all. Not from a technical POV (They moved and were animated fine) but their design was strangely lacking in detail. Faces really lacking character. Jake's design (William Wallace meets... uh, a cat?) seemed odd too, for some reason I cannot put my finger on. However the kids (especially the older kids and the new clan) looked amazing - babies looked poor. The kids were actually quite engaging characters, in fairness.

It's not subtle.... AT ALL. The new clan, complete with tattoos, red flowers in their hair, were THIS close to bursting into a bout of "You're Welcome" (There actually IS a link to Moana later in the movie). The good guys are, again, one-with-nature noble savages. (Complete with some low-rent Water philosophy). And the bad guys are, again, one-note moustache-twirlers.

There was a bit where I accidentally murmured out loud "Oh God no, please"

When the whale thing started talking back to the kid - "Too painful".

There was nothing new, story-wise in the movie (Apart from "How many times can I put these idiot kids in danger?" and "How many times can I get them to say 'Bro' or 'Cuz'?"). As with the first one, it is technically fantastic but extremely shallow story (If the first one was "Dances with Aliens" then this is "Romeo and Juliette meet Moana and then Free Willy"). I believe it will make the money needed but it will by no means be the runaway biggest movie of all time. (And I do know this goes against my previous post).

As per my previous post, Cameron can deliver some fantastic COHERENT action sequences. There is no teleporting to Egypt simply so you can see a robot on a pyramid. There is a reason that X happens after Y which leads to Z (@johnny_ultimate 's post above is a prime example. This was a scene that was no-doubt carefully storyboarded out to make sure it made sense as opposed to nonsensical Bayhem).

The film is also quite long but, as so much of it is setting up the world and various character arcs, I don't know how much you could cut. This is VERY DEFINITELY Part 1 of an arc

Blah blah blah. The other films will involve Kiri coming into her own and eventually sacrificing herself to be one with Eywa/replace Eywa/whatever. Very Princess Yueh.

The vastly superior animated series "Avatar: The Last Airbender" had to add "The Last Airbender" subtitle to avoid confusion/lawsuit. If Avatar 3 and 4 turn into "Avatar: Firenation and Avatar: The Air Nomads" then they NEED to sue :D

Edit: Typos

silliussoddius · 21-12-2022 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003477#Comment_120003477

He definitely out McGeed himself on this one.

pixelburp · 22-12-2022 2:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022048#Comment_120022048

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017777#Comment_120017777

TBH Kermode was fairly salty the rest of the show so maybe he was having an off day. I've also heard a few recent instances of tetchiness in Mayo's voice so have wondered if maybe the lads' hearts aren't quite in it anymore. Perhaps Simon just wants to stick with the writing, wind down the media work.

AMKC · 22-12-2022 10:24pm

Well I went to see it today.

Some really great scenes in it and it is definitely worth seeing in the cinema especially for the final big scenes. I had a nice comfortable leather chair to sit in so was all good after the 3 hours. The only complaint I had was the sound in the cinema could have been better. I might go see it again in the new year if I feel up to it lol.

p to the e · 23-12-2022 10:52am

I came out thinking to myself, "whatever people think of this movie, that man can still direct incredible action scenes". Some of the dialogue was a bit clunky and there was definitely half an hour that could have been chopped off but overall I enjoyed it.

Cameron is a technological innovator in cinema so I'd say the CGI advancements used in this film will be seen in the coming years.

Shred · 23-12-2022 1:39pm

I liked the first one, yes the story was by the numbers but the 3D was incredibly impressive, it was a stunning visual feast on the big screen. I went along with the family to see it again on re-release (in September?) as they hadn't seen it in 3d; I enjoyed it again but did feel the runtime a lot more...this one is even longer, while I'd like to see it I'm just not sure I can put myself through it. Either way it looks like it's doing really well at the box office so another 3 parts likely incoming!

pixelburp · 23-12-2022 4:31pm

Just out from a showing this morning.

It went exactly as I suspected it would: an absolute sumptuous visual feast from someone whose grasp of action and the choreography thereof is so expert as to shame the rest of Hollywood. We have become deadened by the omnipresence of lazy, rubbery CGI we're conditioned to blame the tool, rather than the craftspeople wielding it. James Cameron is a master and every damn time, he shows the kids how it's done. The MCU in particular should take note. The fidelity was so good in places I simply stopped thinking about how it wasn't real. It's not like he's a particularly showy director either; he just knows where the pieces go.

However, the actual story remains utter gubbins of the highest order. Basically a hasty redress of the first film's plot with the humans now even more callous and cartoonishly evil than before. And there's simply no escaping the vomitous over-sincerity of the whole "native tribes are at one with nature and a bit magic" angle that has dragged the tone downwards since the beginning.

So while the spectacle remains awe inspiring, I'm also still a bit bummed that this is the project Cameron is tethering himself to for the final part of his career. He's 68, not exactly prolific and I'd worry all we'll see from him is Avatar sequels.

Kermit.de.frog · 23-12-2022 5:09pm

Agree completely. I can't speak for others and maybe there is a horde of fans hiding in plain sight but I have never heard anyone say they couldn't wait for an Avatar sequel. Strange.

_H80_GHT · 23-12-2022 5:31pm

Film was very predictable. I wanted to like it. There is just too little to like in the Avatar world. It's a film that regardless of all it's technical breaking of ground, left me feeling that I've seen this film a hundred times before.

pixelburp · 24-12-2022 9:34am

I will say in follow up that in a world of utterly overblown finales where the scale goes completely insane, I really enjoyed Avatar 2s simple, focused final act.

All set around and within the environs of a single whaling ship, and the dozen or so natives attacking it.

James Cameron is such a master of action he made the three or so separate stories happening within it all hum and never feel incoherent or confusing.

MisterAnarchy · 24-12-2022 12:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120029238#Comment_120029238

Such a waste of talent.

Since 1995 he has essentially released 3 films, Titanic, Avatar and Avatar 2.

Josey Wales · 24-12-2022 2:35pm

There hasn't been too much mentioned about HFR in the last few posts.

Is Movies@ the only cinema showing it in that format? It seems they are cutting back on it too, the next showing is Jan 4th for 3D HFR.

I emailed both Cineworld and Odeon but got no response on whether they are showing it in that format.

Kermit.de.frog · 26-12-2022 3:31pm

Meanwhile just out of the blue James Cameron in recent days is claiming a reboot of the Terminator franchise is in discussion (ugh). Cynics might say he is scoping an exit from his Avatar franchise already.

The next Avatar is done but I'd make a pretty big bet on it being the last.

speedboatchase · 26-12-2022 5:38pm

I doubt he wants to leave the Avatar world - he wrote the scripts for 4 and 5. As for Terminator, I’m sure he’ll produce a reboot but I think Avatar is all he’ll direct this decade

johnny_ultimate · 26-12-2022 5:58pm

Some of four is already shot too, presumably the bits that happen before a big time jump. Given this film is already set to comfortably sail past the $1 billion box office mark by the end of the week, there’s every chance this’ll be a big enough hit to get the next two definitively greenlit. The whole four sequels thing was always a big gamble by Cameron, but so far anyway it seems to be paying off for him.

pixelburp · 26-12-2022 8:42pm

James Cameron, for better or worse, is all in on the Avatar sequels - unless the box office drives the franchise into the grave I'd be very surprised if he pivots to anything else. It's clearly the exact kind of technical playground that has enabled him to just mess with technology to his hearts content.

Not sure how or where that Terminator rumour came from but it doesn't pass the smell test at all, not for me. The franchise and concept is beyond Dead Horse territory and couldn't see what might entice Cameron. I'd sooner believe True Lies 2 than his return to Terminator.

Drumpot · 27-12-2022 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120030778#Comment_120030778

Aliens is probably my favourite movie of all time. It has absolutely everything you could want in an drama, action, sci fi flick. Story is savage and the main characters motivations and story arcs are handled beautifully.

And the movie holds up well after 36 years, particularly for a sci fi, that’s remarkable.

Cameron has done more celebrated stuff but Aliens stands out for me. Regardless of what people think of his movies, He is indeed a special director

SuperBowserWorld · 27-12-2022 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037214#Comment_120037214

Yep, Aliens is supreme, and T2 comes very close as the best action movies of all time for me.

The bike/truck chase scene near the start of T2 is a towering piece of action cinema. And the CGI special effect does not appear until this sequence is over, where the T1000 appears from the flames. And it's a "this movie is just getting started" moment. Brilliant.

pixelburp · 27-12-2022 11:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037214#Comment_120037214

Theres probably a very short list of movies where the original and sequel can legitimately Duke it out over which one is the better, a hair's breadth between. While both also existing as proper Best In Class of cinema in the first instance.

The thing you can say without reservation - bar the self surgery scene maybe in t1, some of the finale FX in True Lies - is that Cameron's work holds up. There's barely a scene in Aliens that still doesn't convince. And as you say the script and components therein are near flawless.

pixelburp · 27-12-2022 6:09pm

Re. the box office: despite America currently engaging in a real-life recreation of 2004s The Day After Tomorrow, Avatar 2 still managed $64 million across the holiday weekend over there. $90 million if you include the long weekend. So as of typing it's at $889 million worldwide; will be fascinating to watch how much legs this thing has. It'll break $1 billion handily I'd say ... where to after that?

titan18 · 28-12-2022 1:20am

I think it'll have some legs as there's not much else big box office wise until Ant Man, and for all its flaws as a film, I'd still probably see it again in the cinema. It's the sort of film thats only really worth watching in the cinema.

pixelburp · 28-12-2022 7:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039627#Comment_120039627

What will help is like Top Gun Maverick, the word of mouth clearly says "if you see it, you have to see it in the cinema!" which will get more bums on seats. As opposed to something like the MCU where I'd say there are folks like myself, who now just wait the few months before the new film appears ok Disney+.

I see Black Panther 2 hasn't broken the $1 billion ceiling, which is interesting; you'd wonder how much of the interest is down to that factor (again, it's why I didn't bother going to the cinema).

silverharp · 28-12-2022 10:04am

Avatar 2 has now passed every MCU film this year. Funnily enough one or 2 of the MCU films opened stronger than Avatar but they fall off a cliff in the second week so word of mouth must be poor. Avatar 2 is a good family oriented film so you have a huge audience there that will get around to seeing it.

SuperBowserWorld · 28-12-2022 10:38am

The MCU has become Coronation Street. Regular, repetitive, on TV, has a die hard fan base. Simple, ongoing plots, but miss an episode and you drop off. Or it makes it hard to join with all the backstory for new consumers.

People want to see something different and see it in the Cinema.

People are sick of being stuck at home.

Also it's holiday time and there is no other competition at the moment.

Also, Cameron has arranged that China drop it's covid restrictions just in time for this movie.

It's going to be huge.

🙂

MayoForSam · 28-12-2022 12:37pm

Went to see it last night and the plot is very basic and formulaic, even more so than the first one. However, the 3D action sequences, especially the last hour of the movie, does make it entertaining and worthwhile of a cinema visit. The extremely comfortable seats in the Galway Salthill Omniplex also helped. The extra charge and queue for the 3D glasses was annoying and I missed the first 10 minutes.

My missus thoroughly enjoyed it and that's all that counts.

sherrupyew · 28-12-2022 2:35pm

Watched this a couple of nights ago in Cineworld, IMAX 3D. I don't think it was screening in HFR as I didn't notice any frame rate switching or unsual motion smoothing. Either way, if looked absolutely incredible.

The film itself is a huge technical achievement and I'm amazed at how loudly dismissive a few critics have been (like Kermode). It's a long film, but I don't think that's an issue if you're mentally prepared for that. I think it's a richer, more accomplished film than the first.

There are certain refrains that keep popping up regarding Avatar movies..."Dances with Smurfs", "Blue Pocahontas", "No Plot", "Style Over Substance". I think these criticisms are unfair and don't acknowledge the serious skill involved. When it comes to action blockbuster filmmaking, Cameron is in a league of his own.

Cameron has been fairly consistent throughout his career. His films push technological boundaries, have impeccable visual composition and focus on simple, sincere emotional truths built on clearly defined themes. He treats plot as a delivery mechanism for a visceral emotional experience. The "simplicity" is a feature, not a bug.

The only significant criticism I have about Avatar 2 is that there is a pivotal moment involving two characters and a knife towards the end of the film. The impact of this action isn't addressed at all after it occurs. I presume this will be an issue in the next film, but is was strange not to acknowledge the tension this introduced before the film closed.

Beautiful film that will make obscene amounts of money. Cameron is a box office god.

speedboatchase · 28-12-2022 10:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120040663#Comment_120040663

Completely agree. Just back from the cinema and it blew my socks off. Effortlessly created a new band of characters for audiences to care about and achieved a new level of immersion.

Josey Wales · 29-12-2022 12:59am

I'd love confirmation that the film is not in HFR in the Cineworld IMAX screen. The 3D scenes are crystal clear in comparison to any other 3D film I've seen. I was thinking while watching it that maybe these action scenes were in HFR but maybe I was imagining it.

sherrupyew · 29-12-2022 1:25am

I consider myself somebody who is quite sensitive to audio-visual standards, so I was a bit concerned about the HFR trick.

But I honestly could not tell whether the IMAX 3D screening at Cineworld was HFR or not. It all looked fairly flawless, so whatever format it was in, I recommend it.

I'm inclined to think it was actually 24fps, as I never detected any transition or "soap opera" effect. I could be wrong though...if that was HFR, then I'm all for it! The action was extremely clear and I rarely noticed any judder.

It honestly would not surprise me if there are several versions running different frame rates out there. It's all very experimental.

johnny_ultimate · 29-12-2022 1:33am

If you didn’t notice it, odds are high it wasn’t HFR. It overtly changes frame rate from shot to shot so if you’re in any way sensitive to frame rates you can’t help but notice it. I didn’t know what version I was watching other than it was 3D, and when there was a shift to 48 FPS during a flying scene near the start it couldn’t have been more obvious that it was HFR - if anything, that it’s variable makes it even more noticeable as it’s constantly switching back and forth!

sherrupyew · 29-12-2022 1:43am

I agree, it must have been 24fps. I also tried to get clarity on that from Cineworld and I couldn't get an answer. Whatever the framerate was for the Parnell IMAX 3D, it did seem consistent. No discernable changes.

It sounds like HFR is a failed experiment (again) and I'm glad I wasn't subjected to it (I think). The film looked magnificent and retained a cinematic feel.

If HFR draws attention to the edit and takes people out of the movie, it ain't worth it.

Apothic_Red · 29-12-2022 1:58am

Daughters school were all brought to see this Christmas week so she was out.

Our 15 year old hadn't bother to watch Avatar 1 so he had no interest.

10 year old has the movie attention of a goldfish so he was out.

Wife was delighted cause none of them wanted to see it.

I waited until I found a good version on the high seas appeared & have indulged over the past 2 nights.

I wanted more Sigourney Weaver, I can see where they are going with the kid angle for the future.

Much of the kids bullying/bonding scenes could have been cut out.

Surely at this stage the windscreens of those helicopter things could be arrow proof.

Why was the last hour just the Titanic movie again ?

Great special effects though, will watch number 3

johnny_ultimate · 29-12-2022 2:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042692#Comment_120042692

I almost certainly would have agreed, even during the first hour of the film! I hated HFR in The Hobbit, and was dubious when it was jumping back and forth constantly during the first act here. But the underwater scenes and second-half action sequences were so striking and effective in HFR they won me over totally. Yes, it’s certainly distracting when it still occasionally drops back to 24 for a shot or two, but otherwise I was a total skeptic that was happily convinced otherwise here. There are quite a few films that effectively utilise noticeable aspect ratio changes to the film’s ultimate benefit - I think this manages that in HFR. It’s impressive enough that I’m still weighing up seeing it again if I can get a definite HFR screening in Dublin City somewhere.

That said, I maybe think it could’ve been even more effective had Cameron held back on HFR right until the first dive sequence. That would have been quite the trick to pull, to suddenly hit the viewer with the ultra clarity of HFR during a moment of revelation and new experience for the characters. I can understand why that didn’t happen (to ease viewers in, and to smooth out the 3D movement earlier on), but definitely would’ve been a pretty effective gambit IMO :)

sherrupyew · 29-12-2022 2:28am

Hmmm, I am intrigued! Might have to find myself a HFR screening, it's kind of hard to imagine the film being so vivid. It's already A LOT!

I also had the misfortune of seeing The Hobbit in HFR way back. Absolutely awful. Highlighted the artifice of the sets and make-up etc. I couldn't believe they thought it was a good idea.

I guess in this case the heavy CGI helps avoid that trap.

bobbyD1978 · 29-12-2022 2:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120042715#Comment_120042715

My 8 year old absolutely loved it. Went to see it in cineworld with the full 4d and she was mesmerized

Avatar 2

Comments