Avatar 2

youngblood

Fern Gully 2 is a go!

I have no idea where the appetite for the bizillional sequels that are shot is coming from but here we are!

With the millions that have been spent, new adventure themed parks built, presumably the appetite is there and will be another multibillion dollar phenomena?? Or the industries greatest flop

Originally it was the immersive 3D experience that made it a "must see" but hasnt 3D just died a death? When was the last 3D film released? or are there new 3D projectors being lined up for this event also?

Presumably they'll try and make this another cultural event but cant see how they can get that level of interest back?

Does anyone else feel like its just one 1 long video game excerpt?

Find it all v bizarre!

2smiggy

I'm probably in the minority, but I actually liked the story in the original and cannot wait to see this !!

Sad Professor

I am curious to see where Cameron goes with the story. It's so long since the first film and there are 3 more planned so more of the same won't be enough. This one in particular has to do a lot of work. I suspect it's too big to fail and the marketing blitz will be enough to ensure that it doesn't, but that doesn't mean the next one won't.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039613#Comment_119039613

Thing is: is it? Just this year we have seen two of the biggest 90s blockbuster directors - Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay - release bombs, despite the latter directing his best movie in years. While Emmerich had to scramble for funding of Moonfall. Elsewhere, an apparent Sure Thing of a new Harry Potter movie itself crashed (though there's more there than just audience disinterest, Fantastic Beasts is a critically flawed series)

I may be dumping on the film a lot, but I do genuinely wonder if Cameron might be next; audiences mightn't be interested in Avatar, or what Cameron's cooking these days. Blockbuster cinema is in a weird place ATM.

2smiggy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039613#Comment_119039613

ya hope it does not meet the same fate as the Matrix !!

speedboatchase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039645#Comment_119039645

Emmerich and Bay's movies were either original IP and relatively unknown IP. This is the sequel to the highest-grossing movie of all time. Even a drop of 66% in worldwide gross - which would be unheard of for a sequel to something so successful - gets to $1bn and profit. Domestically I think this does OK but worldwide it'll be massive, especially if China grants a release.

brick tamland

Seen the trailer in 3d before Dr Strange at the weekend. I cant imagine it will be the world gretest movie but it looks like it will be worth seeing in the cinema for the effects.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039931#Comment_119039931

Sure, I take your point and one way or another we'll see who's closer to the mark; though Emmerich and Bay are both directors who are their own IP or brands - Michael Bay especially. Honestly, his film being a flop was something of a surprise, shock even. "The latest Michael Bay movie" I'd have thought was promotion enough (and that's speaking as someone who's far from a fan). The prickling of my thumbs feels that Avatar is not a bankable IP at this stage, having gone just that smidgy stale in the years since the first movie. Kinda crazy to think it came out only a year after Iron Man, while Fast & Furious only released its 4th entry in 2009 - in that small amount of time the Blockbuster industry has basically become the playground for both those series, both having mutated and turned into something bigger and dominant.

speedboatchase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040022#Comment_119040022

Bay created action stars in the 90s (Will Smith and Nicolas Cage had never really done anything like that) but everything since the 90s has been based on what was then established IP (Bad Boys 2, Transformers 1-5). The other times he tried something without valuable IP in the past 20 years (Pain and Gain, Six Undeground), they flopped. Ambulance was never going to do well, unfortunately.

As I keep saying, twice Cameron was about to release a flop and twice he broke the all-time box office in those instances. I'm suggesting it at least grosses a billion - which would be a disappointment for Disney, I'm sure - and I look crazy! As you say, time will tell. I actually think that the lack of sequels will help this one, as everyday audiences will want something that feels a bit fresh and doesn't involve superheroes or Vin Diesel.

SuperBowserWorld

The trailer looks good, everything looks a lot better in motion, and the music giving me the feels. ☺️☺️☺️

I'm calling this now. It's going to be really good. I'm getting Titanic, Terminator, Abyss vibes here.

I think/hope Cameron is smart enough to go well beyond what we've been getting dished up to us from Disney/Marvel/Star Wars. And Michael Bay/Emmerich had terrible movies compared to Cameron's.

But the story will have to be unbelievable to carry it for even more sequels.

Something to look forward to.

Mr Crispy

I'm assuming much of the story will have to do with the human kid, and why the hell he's been adopted by Na'vi.

TheIrishGrover

I was never gone on the original outside of the effects work (Which still hold up). I will definitely go to see this in the cinema because it will be something that should be seen on a big screen. And I believe it will be very successful. However the "Success" bar has been set SO high for summer blockbusters that it is almost impossible to reach it.

As I said, wasn't gone on the Dances With Aliens story but, from a technical POV it, along with the Lord Of The Rings trilogy, changed the tentpole blockbuster forever (Bar 3-D). There is a reason there were so many repeat viewers. People simply had not seen a world like that so realistically portrayed before. It still holds up 13 years later!

And I believe that there IS space for this movie to do VERY well. I believe there is Superhero movie apathy at the moment. After 10 years of Marvel and DC superhero movies people are thinking "Enough already". While Spiderman was hugely successful, this was more because it was perceived as the end of his (initial) trilogy and because everyone knew it was going to be a big nostalgia trip. And it (justifiably IMHO) received great word of mouth. However will Dr. Strange 2 pull in similar numbers? Doubtful. Even with Raimi's involvement Will Thor? Doubtful. How many people are going to go to Dr Strange 2 and Thor 4 simply because of the directors? Many (Me included). In that, if they were NOT directed by these people, their numbers would probably be lower.

So, yeah, I think there is space for it. But, given attention on it, the money involved and the money the MCU has taken in, anything less than number 3 on all time takings would be considered a failure. Remember when it seemed unfathomable that Avatar made 1.5 BILLION???!!! Now that's almost blasé

Don't get me wrong, I am going to see this in the biggest screen I can find and I hope it does well. But it's not as sure a thing as it would have been 5 or 6 years ago.

As for the trailer. The effects do look fantastic (Is the "human-looking" kid CGI or "simply" bigged up? 'Cos if he is 100% CGI then the brief glimpses were startlingly good. I suppose it's a hybrid. Similar to recent de-aging effects.

johnny_ultimate

I still find it unfathomable that Avatar is the highest grossing film 😂 Such a particular anomaly in recent box office history!

Although it’s always nice that the top box office holder is an original film rather than a franchise juggernaut. I didn’t particularly like Avatar, but its success is fascinating and IMO why I’m unwilling to make a bet one way or the other on how this one will be received.

speedboatchase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041039#Comment_119041039

I remember it well. The blogger Perez Hilton declared it a flop after its opening weekend was 'only' $73m. Unlike most movies, which have a big weekend and then drop 40-60% the next weekend (Infinity Wars was like this, but from an unprecedented opening weekend), then similar percentages the week after, Avatar had minuscule drops. Its sixth weekend outgrossed the fourth and fifth, which is bizarre. Complete word of mouth. Titanic was even crazier - its sixth weekend was its highest.

johnny_ultimate

I was much younger for Titanic, but that truly was a cultural phenomenon unlike any other film in my living memory (outside maybe Star Wars Episode 1 / 7 and the Infinity War / Endgame duology, but they're different propositions). Just anecdotally of course, but that was just everywhere and everyone needed to see it.

I was much older when Avatar came out, and much more vividly recall it just shattering box office records regularly. What's interesting about it to me is it never quite felt the way Titanic did - I mean lots of people were obviously going to see it and liked the new-fangled experience it offered, but just never felt quite the unstoppable cultural and social bulldozer that Titanic did. Titanic's success felt like it crossed every demographic in an extraordinary way.

Avatar was of course, by any objective metric, a phenomenon - so anecdotal recollection doesn't really mean squat :P And I think we in Ireland perhaps underestimate how its cultural footprint has been extended by the likes of the Disneyland stuff.

blue note

I don't think I'll ever see anything like titanic again. Possibly because i was just the right age for it. But I remember women crying on Oprah because they were so moved by that film. I know one girl who cried at the start of the movie because she knew he was going to die in it. People worked themselves up into a frenzy for it in a way I haven't seen since.

I think titanic was different to avengers endgame or avatar or star wars because everyone was talking about it. Women and old people are much less likely to be interested in the avengers. Same for star wars. There was no demographic that wasn't interested in titanic.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041039#Comment_119041039

Yeah, Titanic (Another film I wasn't gone on. But that's just me) was a cultural phenomenon. I think I heard somewhere that per head of population, Japan saw it 2 or 3 times. It changed fashion, hairstyles. It was quite bizzare. And let's not even start of that bloody song!!! And it was in the cinema for AGES (I think it was something like 3 months between when it finally left the cinema to appear on DVD/VHS!)

I know there was a bit of a mark-up (for the first couple of weeks anyway) price-wise. And people were curious to see a 3D movie. But yeah, I didn't hear about anyone in Japan dying themselves blue (At least not for Avatar). And I don't remember it being in the cinema for as long as Titanic (Although I could be wrong). I do remember that most cinemas were pretty much just showing this and maybe 2 other very minor films for counter-programming. After a week or so everybody backed away.

I just looked. My God. 2.87 billion!!! (Including rerelease takings)

speedboatchase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041710#Comment_119041710

It was released on VHS NINE months after release, and stayed in cinemas for 10 months. Madness.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041882#Comment_119041882

Ah. Yeah, that sounds about right. That was the good/bad old days when it could be a year or more before something came out on home release. God I'm old AF

Mad_maxx

while I didnt love either of them , I prefer Titanic to Avatar , not one decent acting performance in Avatar and Worthington is awful

doubt Il go see its sequel

Sad Professor

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/james-cameron-might-not-direct-avatar-4-and-5-himself-exclusive/

Looks like Jimbo is having doubts…

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119289741#Comment_119289741

Has any top tier director gone to the well 4+ times? Even three seems insane for Cameron - explained in part by the back to back filming.

It'd be cool to see Cameron go back to simpler, visceral filmmaking. Make a total throwback action flick.

Oafley Jones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290357#Comment_119290357

Peter Jackson. I can't see Cameron doing that, as his interest in developing technical solutions is what primarily drives him.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119290737#Comment_119290737

Oh yeah; though The Hobbit was such a disaster I kinda ignore that as being part of the same series lol; in another universe, Guillermo DelToro's 2 Hobbit films wowed audiences with its dark imagination. Sigh.

That's true also re. Cameron. To that point then, maybe drones are the next technical leap in blockbusters? Micheal Bay showed their potential with Ambulance and you'd wonder when we might see a truly inventive use of them - coupled with the undoubted talent of someone at the level of James Cameron. Ambulance only used them here and there, mostly as establishing shots IMO.

loyatemu

the Hobbit series did decent business (I thought they were OK movies as well, though obviously could have been a lot shorter).

I wonder if the suits are getting nervous now - it's one thing to have one big budget film flop, but when you're committed to another 3 in the series... What happens if Avatar 2 really crashes, do they cancel the others, how much money have they sunk into them already?

This really isn't like MCU or Star Wars, where the appetite for more movies was well established, if anything it's the opposite with Avatar. "Yeah, Avatar was ok, we're not that pushed about sequels" "4 sequels it is so!"

Sad Professor

It seems they are only committed to Avatar 2 and 3. Avatar 4, 5 and 6 haven't been green lit and depend on how successful Avatar 2 & 3 are.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292121#Comment_119292121

That's my understanding as well, although there seems to have been a lot of vague and ambiguous statements on the issue muddying the water. There's even been the suggestion that a decent chunk of Avatar 4 has been filmed already!

But it seems safe to say that if Avatar 2 is a proper flop we won't see 4 or 5, directed by Cameron or anyone else.

Sad Professor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292156#Comment_119292156

It seems there's a time jump in the first 30 minutes of Avatar 4, so anything before that time jump involving the younger actors has been shot.

On that point, the release schedule for Avatar 4-5 (2026-28) seems totally unrealistic if indeed most of the shooting has still to take place.

FunLover18

Worth remembering as well that the Avatar sequels were greenlit and funded by Fox and inherited by Disney who delayed the release of Avatar 2 partly because of Covid but also, afaik, partly because they didn't want it to clash with their other properties. It will be interesting to see how invested they actually are in this franchise.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292368#Comment_119292368

Presumably enough to the extent there's an Avatar section of Disneyland now