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Being forced to move back to dublin to work from the office 4 out of 5 days.

  • 27-12-2022 9:07pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    I currently live in the countryside about 3 hours transport from Dublin. My company recently said we have to go back to the office for 4 out of the 5 days and can work from home 1 day a week. We were supposed to be coming in 1 day a week but I haven't really done that as it wasn't enforced. They are clamping down on it a bit more now so I'm guessing its going to be enforced somehow but I'm not sure how yet. Another person on my team has managed to get 1 day a week instead as he has kids which is fair enough. I've heard of other exceptions being made but only for reduced mobility. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? I'm thinking about looking for some remote positions to see what else might be out there.

    Post edited by HildaOgdenx on


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,068 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    what you mean back to Dublin?

    I assume you left Dublin but am guessing your company is still where it always was?



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    Oh sorry I ment back to the office. I've updated it there. My company is still based in Dublin. I left Dublin during the pandemic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Your employment contract should specify your place of work. It's likely that is the office. Most companies have brought in a remote working policy, our place is one day a week now too. It sucks but it is what it is. You either comply or find another job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    Just quit, if you are important enough you will be accommodated, if you aren't then you never were



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    Mod Note - OP I have moved your thread to Work Problems which is more suited to it.

    Local charter now applies.

    Hilda



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭Augme


    Have you tried to discuss it with your manager and see if you can keep the same arrangement? It's a nuclear option, but if they do refuse you could point out that their current policy is discrimination. If that falls on deaf ears you could then consider taking a case against them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭Unsupervised


    How did people get it into their head that WFH would be a permanent thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 418 ✭✭Blud




  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    Yeah i discussed it and they said it was unlikely unless I had a very good reason. I said it was unrealistic to go back to Dublin by the date they said and to see could we push the date a bit more into the future. What kind of discrimination? Like some people getting the chance to work more from home due to kids versus a single person not getting that option?



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    I've worked from home for nearly 3 years now with about 10 days back in the office so its annoying to be asked to go back for 80% of the time. It would be a big change for me as I've gotten used to life elsewhere and it hasn't been half bad. A lot of companies have better remote options or some companies have gone fully remote like Slack.



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  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So you move permanently away from your work place, and expect your work to accommodate?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    What did they say when you discussed it? Outright refusal or what?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    There's no discrimination. Where is your "home" written in your contract?

    edit: meant "home office " place of employment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭Unsupervised


    Did you work full time from home before the pandemic?

    Your company doesn’t care what you got used to.

    They have invested in infrastructure which they don’t want seen as empty.

    why ask the company to “ push the date a bit more into the future”…. If you refuse to return to the office they will simply replace you with employees that will work in the office.

    Why not apply to Slack then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    Meet me half way or something and give me 2 days a week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    They said it was not going to happen unless I had kids or a physical disability where working from home would be easier.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,021 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    If people with kids are getting favourable treatment over those that don’t I guess?



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    I worked from the office full time before the pandemic. Yeah its something on my radar to apply for remote roles but just trying to see if people have been in a similar situation and manage to get remote working.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Find another job, either local or one that might accommodate you.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Likewise. Mr @Unsupervised should be supervised before he spouts more nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭TheadoreT


    Has HR officially gone with the line that people with kids are allowed continue from home but people without them aren't? Find that very hard to believe.

    But if so it's clearly your angle here to play the discrimination card.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭Unsupervised




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭Augme



    Under the family status ground. You can't treat people differently because of their family status. If they are willing to let someone work from home because they have kids and then they can't refuse it for people who don't have kids.



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    No, they've said that if you having kids then you talk to your manager about coming up with an alternative plan like working 2 days a week or being flexible about what hours you work from in the office to pick up kids or something.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭Augme


    Yes. Family status is one of the nine grounds for discrimination. You can not be treated differently because of your family status. Single people and people with no children are covered by that as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭Augme



    Do you have that in an email? That's a clear and obvious a case of discrimination.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,357 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It isn't. Its an example of offering family friendly policies to those that might be under particular pressure with dependents and need a little more flexibility.

    Choosing to leave the City during the pandemic on a finger-crossed basis, that compulsory office working may never return, is just an example of a gamble that didn't pay off.

    Most contracts, certainly any I've ever had, contain a clause to the effect that 'the employee shall live within a reasonable distance of their assigned place of work, such that they may render regular and efficient service'.

    This is standard stuff to protect the employer, in the event of location moves, change management issues etc.

    The reality is, it is not discrimination, its just a policy that inconveniences the OP.

    On the bright side, its a sellers market, go get a role which contracts working from home and be happy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    op.

    id simply find another position. Start looking now. if you can find somewhere with a better work life balance than commuting 4 days take it.

    Under irish law you cannot force them to allow remote working, but you can tender your resignation. to gain time make an official request to work from home in writing and ask for all decisions to be put in writing. Tell them you feel unfairly singled out that employee X & Y are allowed to work from home. Then appeal that decision, and follow the appeals procedure. Also read your contract carefully and see if there are any provisions in there that relate to working, where your work etc.

    Make such a fuss, make them out everything down in writing. if you lose Ask them if you can make a phased return to work. If all that fails tell them you think your treatment is tantamount to constructive dismissal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭Augme


    It is. But the best thing the OP should do is contact a employment solicitor and get proper legal advice if he feels it is worth pursuing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n



    The OP should also consider what exactly was said to them because it’s not clear from the posts.


    Seriously, this is ridiculous though and I am getting tired of people who think that remote working should continue to be accommodated to suit their situation. If your employer wants you back on the premises there is a probably reason for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,357 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    There may be a good reason. There may not be a good reason. They don't have to give a reason.

    The proposed legislation to support a greater degree of working from home in the workforce, has not become law yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,357 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It really isn't.

    But who am I only a line manager and professional in a firm of specialist consultants, who have spent the last 18 months considering the implications of longer term 'working from home' and greater demand from our people for precisely that.

    The fact is, family friendly policies, for those who have such commitments, are only for people who have such commitments! They have to be applied for, with details of those commitments supplied, in a confidential process between employee and employer. A three hour commute does not qualify. And being refused greater flexible working, for a reason that doesn't qualify in the first place, certainly does not constitute discrimination. In fact, I'd be interested in the source which suggested to you that it may be.

    Anyway, the OP is free to get advice from a solicitor or HR specialist, but it will be the same outcome, only he will be €250 lighter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,807 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    >the employee shall live within a reasonable distance of their assigned place of work

    Never seen the likes of this in a contract.







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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    I don’t know the legal vagaries but surely something like this is discrimination in the other direction?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭poppers


    You were asked 2 come In 1 day a week which you say you ignored , and now you want them to meet you half way by say coming in 2 days a week.

    If every else in the company also ignored the 1 day a week policy I can see why they are cracking down on the WFH culture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    OP it depends on how the remote work policy is worded. If it states in black and white that all workers must be on site 4 days a week then you havent much wiggle room there and if so, maybe look around for other wfh jobs. There are plenty of them out there, despite this bizzare notion from so many people that we should all be in an open plan office monday to friday 9-5 and that thats the only efficient model of a workplace. Lots of companies have learnt from Covid and have allowed remote and flexible working options. The ones that rigidly adhere to the "you must be on site" mindset are losing employees hand over fist.

    However, if its the case where certain people can wfh and others cant, typically women with kids, then yeah thats out of order particularly if the work can be done sufficiently from home. You can say to your manager would it be possible to keep your current arrangement as the commute would be quite long. Thats not your employers problem of course but there is no harm in presenting this argument. It galls me when women with kids act all superior and entitled when it comes to the hierarchy of who should and who shouldnt work from home. If a job can be done remotely then anyone can do it- single, kids, no kids, old young etc. Flexible work options are not exclusive to families. Again, if you get nowhere then i advise looking for a more tolerant employer. Good luck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    I know of at least one big company who are going to make a lot of redundancies soon. Currently they have a policy of staff working from home 4 days a week.

    A friend working in their HR department told me that hey have been told by head office to select the names of the staff who can be made redundant. And then make them all come back to the office for 5 days a week. If they get enough people to leave from that then they save themselves on redundancy.

    I said that might be constructive dismissal. My friend said they have a whole legal department there who decided that they could do this. Some cost benefit calculation.

    That said though, I think if working from home suits anyone and then they are told to go back to the office that they should actually straight away be looking for a new job that suits them better. Who wants to commute when you can just join a different company where you dont have to commute. I would be out the door like a shot if i was brought back into the office for more days than i am at the moment. I can just about tolerate the days im in now. It would kill me to have to go in more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭TheSheriff


    We are back four days per week in the office.

    Lost team members during the process, but they've been replaced.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,114 ✭✭✭Augme



    Family friendly policies have to be for everyone, no matter what there status is. Otherwise it is discrimination. The source who have suggested it is discrimination is the irish legislation, namely the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015. A person is said to be discriminated against if they are treated less favourably than another is, has been or would be treated in a comparable situation on any of the nine grounds. Family status is one of the nine grounds.


    If an employer treats Mary less favourably than John because of her race that is discrimination. If an employer treats Mary less favourably than John because of her sexual orientation than that is discrimination. If an employer treats Mary less favourable than John because of her family status that is discrimination.


    If an employer had a policy that said white people didn't have to attend the office but black people did, that would be discrimination. If an employer had a policy that straight people didnt havd to attend the office but gay people did that would be discrimination. If an employer had a policy that people who didn't have kids could work from home and people with kids had to attend the office that would be discrimination.


    During your 18 months work I'd love to know how you came to the conclusion it isn't discrimination.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    So do you have a contract that says you are WFH permanently? Or is it WFH until it isn't?

    I'd be worried if my company told me I can WFH permanently as I'd be seriously questioning if I'm a valued employee, my chances of ever being promoted, and the likelihood of me being first in line if redundancies were being considered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭dashoonage


    This is what stood out to me as well. We are lucky to have 4 days a week from home and by god I make sure I'm in that office 1 day a week

    You were give a gift horse with the 1 day a week and ignored it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭TheSheriff


    Absolutely zero issues, we were completely over subscribed when I opened the job adverts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 758 ✭✭✭techman1


    the government and RTE were pushing the whole thing during Covid to keep people in their homes and to pressure employers to keep people at home. It was highly irresponsible to be pushing WFH as a permanent thing , the talking heads got carried away with this hysteria during Covid, They were also saying that pubs and nightclubs would never reopen again and that people would not travel by plane again which explains the huge backlogs in Dublin airport during the summer.

    I think WFH in the future will really be only for senior highly skilled employees who have already proved themselves. In the OP situation I think that they are gradually phasing out WFH fulltime for all employees. I would say a new employee with children would not be given that option to WFH , it is just for established employees and probably just temporary at the discretion of the employer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,400 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    This is the key I think. It only takes a few people applying their own rules to a situation for an employer to turn around and say “This just isn’t worth the hassle” and scrap the whole thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Hi OP

    I think you might be fairly goosed. Unless the majority/all the employees within your company do no comply with the new rules, then you'll need to comply.

    You've a few options though, you could see if you can get your employer to agree with 2 days perhaps. In you're post you said 3 hours transport I'm assuming you mean not driving and taking public transport. Sure you could drive to the M50 and use public transport from there?

    Many of the multinationals had guys move home (Home being in another country) and are struggling to get them back. There is also a shortage of half decent workers at the moment that's exasperating the problem. (There's plenty of idiots)

    Out of interest, can I ask why you moved to the country, were you renting, are you from the country and what's your age bracket? 20-30, 30-40 etc



  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Unless you join since 2020, there is very unlikely any mention of work at home in contract. The idea I can unilaterally decide to move away and expect the person paying my salary to accommodate is outrageous



  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    You can ask, and if they say no, start looking for another job. That's a out it really.



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