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When does somebody become a proper "gangster" in Ireland ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭SupaCat95

    You become a proper gangster in Ireland when you get enough transfers to be elected a TD

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭CGI_Livia_Soprano
    Holding tyrants to the fire

    With all due respect you are talking absolute rubbish.

    Whether it be today, thirty years ago, or a hundred years ago, people involved in organised crime always have been subhuman scum preying on law-abiding members of a community.

    I don’t know what is it about organised criminals in particular but people always have this idea that the lads in the past were classy upright gentlemen. They were violent thugs then just like today. Martin Cahill crucified a man once for god’s sake. He was a scumbag, like the lads who came before him and the lads who came after.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,735 ✭✭✭Motivator

    Where did I say they were decent people? I said they were seen to be decent people. Gangsters back 30/40 year ago vs now there’s no comparison whatever way you slice it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Big Gerry

    The old school British gangster is a completely different animal to the thugs who are on the streets nowadays who stab people as quick as look at them.

    People like Frankie Fraser could pass for anyone's Grandfather.

    If you met someone like Frankie Fraser you would never think he was a gangster unless he started talking about crime.

    Someone like Fraser could easily fit in to respectable society or go to a posh restaurant.

    The same can't be said for the modern thugs who you can see coming a mile away that you would cross the street to avoid.

    I'm not saying criminals like Fraser were good people but his sort of criminal were nothing like the thugs that are around today.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,973 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    Don't mind that, the pertinent question is where would you put today's gangstas on the Frankie Fraser Madometer?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,983 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    It’s actually the other way around. The indigenous Italian mafia and specifically the Sicilian and Comorro were involved in heroin trafficking. It was the American Italian mafia had issues but it wasnt a vblanket. It was up to the head of each family. The head if gambino was shoot on sight any drug activity. But sure gotti was up to his neck.

  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Big Gerry

    Yes I know elements of the Mafia got involved in drugs but that was not the norm and would not have been accepted by most people in the Mafia because it was culturally unacceptable with the Mafia the same way most scumbag criminals would have no time for child abusers.

    Correction I'm talking about the old Italian mafia in America I don't know if the Mafia in Europe were ever "anti drugs".

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,983 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    No that’s not true at all and mainly an idea perpetrated by the godfather with don corleone turning down the relationship with Sollozzo and copperfastened with Paulies disdain in Goodfellas. But the mafia was never against deugs and it was a decision by 2 family bosses. But back in Italy as soon as heroin and Cocaine became available the sicillian and comorro were first to the trough. In 1962 manzella In Sicily organised the first major shipment of cocaine. You have to understand this is rural Italy they would never have seen the impact of the end product like the Americans would in built up area. They see agriculture product and by product. And most importantly ,money. Also the other major revenue fr the Italian was human trafficking which went hand in hand with the drug traffickng

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,983 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    That prohibition on narcotics by the US mob is a fallacy. The reality is the majority of all the families were trancing narcotics from the 50sl pjhiladelphia is an example of tha. And as soon as cocaine came in The 70s most families and in most cities controlled the distribution and finance of it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,277 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx

    In fairness I think Big Gerry covers that 😬

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,983 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    I’m going to my name by deed poll to ?an obviously innocent man’ in case I’m ever prosecuted. The day of the trial registrars would read out DPP v An obviously innocent man, case would be won right there and then.

  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Big Gerry

    Is Michael Franzese lying when he said that the Italian mafia in America were generally anti drugs ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,655 ✭✭✭buried

    "When does somebody become a proper "gangster" in Ireland ?"

    When they become a CEO of a bank. Even prosecution will GARUNTEE the result as ultimately acquittal. Now that's Proper gangster $hit that Al Capone could only dream about

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,983 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    They were anti drugs. But apart from two boss’ s they all made a significant portion from drug trafficking. trafficking is different obviously dfferent to controlling the streets or areas or drugs. This is more logistics and the supply chain both nationally because of their control of the haulage industry, they had cops on the take so guaranteed easy passage etc.equally they had control o docks, international shipping as well as bonded warehouses in major airports. So they would use their re existing networks to facilitate the latrge international trafficking of narcotics. So they have this hands off that’s not us appearance but also it’s them.

    as for michael franceze I’ll say this. This is a sticky subject for him. He could not in all faith admit they all were up to their eyes in it but his brother was a junkie who got hiv. That would be very painful and not in line with his new ‘ i found god I’m fully redeemed persona.

    the massive mob drugs busts in the 70s and 80s are in direct contrast to the alleged no drugs policy. Also the whole of vegas was bankrolled by gambling prostitution and drugs. Same as At

    antic city and the shore.

    we actually did a case study on this book for work. Really eye opening

    this is another great article in the deep rooted international trafficking history and recent past

  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Big Gerry

    If you can't make it as a "gangster" then becoming a full time "former gangster" is probably a better career move.

    In the UK people who were never big criminals to begin with have made lucrative careers out of being "former criminals" by writing books and doing interviews/documentaries about their alleged criminal career.

    People like Dave Courtney who is an absolute joke of a "gangster" would have you believe he was Don Corleone when in reality he was a two-bit Debt Collector/Doorman who collected debts for as low as 100 pounds from piss poor people. But Courtney is a great bullshit artist and claims if somebody was owed a 100k he was the man people would hire to get their money back when all other options had failed.

    There is another character in England called Carlton Leach who has made a whole career just by talking about the Essex Murders.

    Leach was a Football Hooligan/Doorman who dabbled in a bit of crime but his main claim to fame was to have been "best mates" with one of the Rettendon Murder victims Tony Tucker who he said was like his "brother".

    Many people have said that Leach and Tucker weren't even that close but because they moved in similar circles they would sometimes cross each other paths so Leach is able to claim they were "best mates" and do endless interviews/books about his "friendship" with the notorious Tony Tucker.

    It can only be a matter of time before one of those "former gangster" types emerges in Ireland makes a whole career out of talking shite about their criminal past.

    Anyone who knew Martin Cahill or was even loosely connected with him could possibly make a career out of telling stories about the "Generals Gang" and the big heists Cahill pulled off.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭corner of hells

  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Big Gerry

    The Viper is probably the hardest man in Irish gangland.

    He has had about 20 bullets pumped into him and survived 5 assassination attempts.

    He literally can't be killed.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,735 ✭✭✭Motivator

    Foley is well hardened at this stage, would he be 60?

    just checked it he’s 71!

  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Big Gerry

    Hes a pensioner now and hes still going around acting the hardman "recovering" unpaid debts.

    If somebody owes you money and they refuse to pay no problem just call The Viper and he'll get the money back for a small commission.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Had dealings with the Big Fry. Billy “Baked Beans”. It’s strange how such a sinister and manipulative creature was allowed get outside his area and become such an important player. Rarely talked about in the media, but I’m sure a lot of important players consider the whole family to be pure evil.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,735 ✭✭✭Motivator

    Trying to stay somewhat relevant and failing by the looks of things. Always struck me as a fella that was a rung or two below the big hitters and desperately wanted to be at the top.

    A funny story from years ago, friend of mine was in Browne’s betting office in the early 90s and John Gilligan was in there. He had a newspaper under his arm and his photo was on the front of it. He ran out of cash and asked my friend for a lend of money or he’d shoot him. My friend handed him over £80 and left the shop very quickly. About 6 months later he was in there again and who comes up to him only Gilligan and handed him £80. He said he was waiting for a dig as well but no, Gilligan just said thanks and walked back to his seat. Until the Veronica Guerin murder my mate got great mileage out of that story. He didn’t tell it for years as he was afraid people thought he was pally with JG.

  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Big Gerry

    The really big criminals don't go around telling everybody that they are a "gangster" and keep their name out of the Sunday World.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,695 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore

    When you get a Batman-eque villain nickname dreamt up by a Sunday World hack.

  • Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Big Gerry

    And then you can go around using that nickname to threaten people.

    "Do you know who I am"... "I was in the Sunday World"...