When does somebody become a proper "gangster" in Ireland ?

Big Gerry

In Ireland you don't become a proper "gangster" until you get your name in the Sunday World.

Once a criminal gets their name in the Sunday World they can then start acting the Hardman and start saying to people "Do you know who I am ? I was in the Sunday World you better not mess with me pal".

You have to hand it to the Sunday World they are great at bigging up non entities in the Irish criminal world.

The Sunday World would have you believe that the junkie you see doing small drug deals at the side of the road is actually the new Pablo Escobar.

What utter nonsense

Richard Hillman

You need a proper nickname too.

Packrat

Maybe try not reading the Sunday World.

Why would you waste brain cells absorbing which trackie wearing scrote is which?

They're all subhuman lowlife.

Star Bingo

When you get a ballyclava and a luis vuitton manbag. Then you’re gansta g

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979663#Comment_119979663

I'm going to call my self "The Boss" AKA "The Peoples Criminal*"

*registered trademark

Big Gerry

Another thing has anyone else noticed there now seems to be a lot less "celebrity criminals" in Ireland than there was back in the 80s and 90s ?

mazdamiatamx5

I was going to say when the tabloid press starts referring to them using a stupid nickname, but actually most of the fellas with the nicknames these days are non-entities. The likes of The General pulled off some pretty impressive heists.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979838#Comment_119979838

Do you remember back in the 90s when the "little general" appeared on the scene ?

I was expecting big things from that fella but he was no martin cahill.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979667#Comment_119979667

Without the Sunday World how would normal people know what was going on in the criminal world ?

20Wheel

I suppose an international aspect would be one key criteria.

Even cross border would do, that still qualifies, but is frowned up for the lack the snazziness.

Covering your face with a folded newspaper to avoid the camera should be one of those small regular annoyances that you have to contend with. Thats the 'taking out the bins' of the gangster.

corner of hells

You're officially a gangster when CAB start knocking on your door.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981064#Comment_119981064

I remember a few years ago CAB investigated a notorious "gangster" who was on the dole and hadn't got a pot to piss in based on a Sunday World "exclusive".

It must be hilarious getting investigated by CAB when you have no money or assets.

If that was me I would be saying to CAB can you tell me where my alleged "millions" are because I need the cash.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980242#Comment_119980242

The thing is modern gangland crime all revolves around drugs were as back in the day you could glamorise "Ordinary Decent Criminals" who just robbed banks and didn't murder people.

Big Gerry

I wonder how long it will be before one of Ireland's Dumbest Criminals does an armed Robbery on one of the new cashless banks ?

It would be some sickner to get locked up for years for trying to rob a cashless bank.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119981161#Comment_119981161

Aren't nearly all of them on the dole anyway? I doubt CAB would investigate him unless they had good reason to.

Motivator

20 or 30 years ago, gangsters were proper gangsters. The current breed are embarrassing. The gangs around now are all cowardly bastards. Mr. Flashy, the Gucci gang - they wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes back in the 90s.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119983991#Comment_119983991

No if someone was a proper "gangster" they would have some sort of front "business" to justify their income.

If you are on the dole but driving a top end BMW you are going to stand out like a sore thumb so you would need to have some sort of bullshit "business" to keep CAB off your back.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984284#Comment_119984284

If you go back to the 50s and 60s the criminals back then were gentlemen by todays standards and all wore suits instead of tracksuits.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984351#Comment_119984351

People present like trash now anyways, standards are fairly down impoverished tenement kids dressed smarter back in the day. Try that now and you get peaky blinder jibes or work in Rte

Be right back

Have a relationship with your wife and her sister and the wife knows about it! Hard core.

happyoutscan

What always annoyed me was when papers would have pictures of these thugs looking all tough - eyes hardened and glaring at the camera - on the way in/out of court instead of putting up a pic that shows them as the cowards they are.

If the camera shutter is flicking hundreds of times, use the image that won't embolden/enhance their ego and reputation.

Used to drive me crazy seeing all those goons from Limerick looking like hard men on the paper, when we all know what they really are. Cowards.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984380#Comment_119984380

I wonder what caused modern criminals to be far more thuggish and inarticulate than old school gangsters of the past who could actually fit into mainstream society ?

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984396#Comment_119984396

You can get away with that if you have money.

Donald Trump

Booyakasha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_CgTl2idcI

Gangsta, bitches

(Or what most of the lads trying to come across as serious on the gangland thread are like in reality)

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984351#Comment_119984351

We should have a Japanese style system where you have to register gang membership to ensure higher standards are being maintained.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984468#Comment_119984468

The gas thing is if somebody was actually a serious criminal they would want to keep a low profile and they wouldn't be going around telling everybody that they are a "gangster".

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984284#Comment_119984284

I think they should in order to elevate their profession to include a modicum of credibility they should make an effort as regards their appropriate appearance…

“ story bud “

Big Gerry

Its probably fair to say that there would be a lot less "gangsters" in Ireland or at least less people claiming to be "gangsters" if it wasn't for the Sunday World bigging people up.

Many kids in disadvantaged areas look up to the characters in the Sunday World and see them as role models.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984351#Comment_119984351

Yep. Much like the old Gypsies in Ireland. They were seen as somewhat decent people and weren’t held in the same disregard as travellers today. I’ve actually heard this comparison mentioned a few times before by older people. As time moved on and Ireland progressed, the people and their values regressed. The so called gangsters that are around now wouldn’t have survived years ago, they wouldn’t have been allowed carry on the way they do and it’s the same with the travellers. Values and what traveller people stood for in bygone days have gone out the window .

The mafia in cities like New York and Chicago is the exact same. Generations of crime families operated with what basically can be described as class. The mafia nowadays are seen as a bit of a joke and they no longer hold the same power or authority as they did for so many decades.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984851#Comment_119984851

Apparently the old Italian Mafia in America had a line they wouldn't cross and that was not to get involved in the drugs business.

Murder is OK but just don't sell drugs.

I'm not sure how that makes sense on any level.

The gangsters back then must have been very socially responsible people who only did crime to help the poor.

SupaCat95

You become a proper gangster in Ireland when you get enough transfers to be elected a TD

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984851#Comment_119984851

With all due respect you are talking absolute rubbish.

Whether it be today, thirty years ago, or a hundred years ago, people involved in organised crime always have been subhuman scum preying on law-abiding members of a community.

I don’t know what is it about organised criminals in particular but people always have this idea that the lads in the past were classy upright gentlemen. They were violent thugs then just like today. Martin Cahill crucified a man once for god’s sake. He was a scumbag, like the lads who came before him and the lads who came after.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985648#Comment_119985648

Where did I say they were decent people? I said they were seen to be decent people. Gangsters back 30/40 year ago vs now there’s no comparison whatever way you slice it.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985648#Comment_119985648

The old school British gangster is a completely different animal to the thugs who are on the streets nowadays who stab people as quick as look at them.

People like Frankie Fraser could pass for anyone's Grandfather.

If you met someone like Frankie Fraser you would never think he was a gangster unless he started talking about crime.

Someone like Fraser could easily fit in to respectable society or go to a posh restaurant.

The same can't be said for the modern thugs who you can see coming a mile away that you would cross the street to avoid.

I'm not saying criminals like Fraser were good people but his sort of criminal were nothing like the thugs that are around today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sd-Yc8h1I4c

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985805#Comment_119985805

Don't mind that, the pertinent question is where would you put today's gangstas on the Frankie Fraser Madometer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8cJ0U0eIuw

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984898#Comment_119984898

It’s actually the other way around. The indigenous Italian mafia and specifically the Sicilian and Comorro were involved in heroin trafficking. It was the American Italian mafia had issues but it wasnt a vblanket. It was up to the head of each family. The head if gambino was shoot on sight any drug activity. But sure gotti was up to his neck.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985864#Comment_119985864

Yes I know elements of the Mafia got involved in drugs but that was not the norm and would not have been accepted by most people in the Mafia because it was culturally unacceptable with the Mafia the same way most scumbag criminals would have no time for child abusers.

Correction I'm talking about the old Italian mafia in America I don't know if the Mafia in Europe were ever "anti drugs".

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985874#Comment_119985874

No that’s not true at all and mainly an idea perpetrated by the godfather with don corleone turning down the relationship with Sollozzo and copperfastened with Paulies disdain in Goodfellas. But the mafia was never against deugs and it was a decision by 2 family bosses. But back in Italy as soon as heroin and Cocaine became available the sicillian and comorro were first to the trough. In 1962 manzella In Sicily organised the first major shipment of cocaine. You have to understand this is rural Italy they would never have seen the impact of the end product like the Americans would in built up area. They see agriculture product and by product. And most importantly ,money. Also the other major revenue fr the Italian was human trafficking which went hand in hand with the drug traffickng

joeguevara

!m

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985874#Comment_119985874

That prohibition on narcotics by the US mob is a fallacy. The reality is the majority of all the families were trancing narcotics from the 50sl pjhiladelphia is an example of tha. And as soon as cocaine came in The 70s most families and in most cities controlled the distribution and finance of it.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979806#Comment_119979806

In fairness I think Big Gerry covers that 😬

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119979806#Comment_119979806

I’m going to my name by deed poll to ?an obviously innocent man’ in case I’m ever prosecuted. The day of the trial registrars would read out DPP v An obviously innocent man, case would be won right there and then.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985892#Comment_119985892

Is Michael Franzese lying when he said that the Italian mafia in America were generally anti drugs ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaURYqIIkHo

buried

"When does somebody become a proper "gangster" in Ireland ?"

When they become a CEO of a bank. Even prosecution will GARUNTEE the result as ultimately acquittal. Now that's Proper gangster $hit that Al Capone could only dream about

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987536#Comment_119987536

They were anti drugs. But apart from two boss’ s they all made a significant portion from drug trafficking. trafficking is different obviously dfferent to controlling the streets or areas or drugs. This is more logistics and the supply chain both nationally because of their control of the haulage industry, they had cops on the take so guaranteed easy passage etc.equally they had control o docks, international shipping as well as bonded warehouses in major airports. So they would use their re existing networks to facilitate the latrge international trafficking of narcotics. So they have this hands off that’s not us appearance but also it’s them.

as for michael franceze I’ll say this. This is a sticky subject for him. He could not in all faith admit they all were up to their eyes in it but his brother was a junkie who got hiv. That would be very painful and not in line with his new ‘ i found god I’m fully redeemed persona.

the massive mob drugs busts in the 70s and 80s are in direct contrast to the alleged no drugs policy. Also the whole of vegas was bankrolled by gambling prostitution and drugs. Same as At

antic city and the shore.

we actually did a case study on this book for work. Really eye opening https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/narcotics-trafficking-and-american-mafia-myth-internal-prohibition

this is another great article in the deep rooted international trafficking history and recent past

https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-italy-mafia-20140212-story.html

Big Gerry

If you can't make it as a "gangster" then becoming a full time "former gangster" is probably a better career move.

In the UK people who were never big criminals to begin with have made lucrative careers out of being "former criminals" by writing books and doing interviews/documentaries about their alleged criminal career.

People like Dave Courtney who is an absolute joke of a "gangster" would have you believe he was Don Corleone when in reality he was a two-bit Debt Collector/Doorman who collected debts for as low as 100 pounds from piss poor people. But Courtney is a great bullshit artist and claims if somebody was owed a 100k he was the man people would hire to get their money back when all other options had failed.

There is another character in England called Carlton Leach who has made a whole career just by talking about the Essex Murders.

Leach was a Football Hooligan/Doorman who dabbled in a bit of crime but his main claim to fame was to have been "best mates" with one of the Rettendon Murder victims Tony Tucker who he said was like his "brother".

Many people have said that Leach and Tucker weren't even that close but because they moved in similar circles they would sometimes cross each other paths so Leach is able to claim they were "best mates" and do endless interviews/books about his "friendship" with the notorious Tony Tucker.

It can only be a matter of time before one of those "former gangster" types emerges in Ireland makes a whole career out of talking shite about their criminal past.

Anyone who knew Martin Cahill or was even loosely connected with him could possibly make a career out of telling stories about the "Generals Gang" and the big heists Cahill pulled off.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984284#Comment_119984284

Like the Dunnes or Felloni ?

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119984284#Comment_119984284

The Viper is probably the hardest man in Irish gangland.

He has had about 20 bullets pumped into him and survived 5 assassination attempts.

He literally can't be killed.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119989718#Comment_119989718

Foley is well hardened at this stage, would he be 60?

just checked it he’s 71!

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993370#Comment_119993370

Hes a pensioner now and hes still going around acting the hardman "recovering" unpaid debts.

If somebody owes you money and they refuse to pay no problem just call The Viper and he'll get the money back for a small commission.

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/shocking-video-shows-martin-the-viper-foley-tell-man-to-google-me-as-he-demands-10000/40164238.html

Had dealings with the Big Fry. Billy “Baked Beans”. It’s strange how such a sinister and manipulative creature was allowed get outside his area and become such an important player. Rarely talked about in the media, but I’m sure a lot of important players consider the whole family to be pure evil.